Wasim Akram vs. Waqar Younis vs. Imran Khan

[Agent Nationaux]

I have never seen Imran play so can't comment. But Waqar is the best for me.

 

[Fusion]

First comes Imran. Imran essentially passed every major milestone expected of a true all-time great fast bowler and his record is not far from Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee as complete. His record against the best team of his era, WI, was better than any of his peers. He averaged overall less than 25 against everyone except NZ. His record against the strong Indian batting lineups on pure roads is very impressive. He improved as his career moved along, and was as successful when he came back at reduced pace in 1986 as he was at his pace peak, showing a new mastery of the leg cutter. His bowling peak was actually rated the best of all post-war bowlers. As a bowler, he was calculating and you can sense he pushed himself to respond to bigger challenges. Unlike Waqar and Wasim, whose best performances were mostly in tandem, he has quite a few performances where he simply single handedly sliced through a world class batting lineup. I don't see much in Wasim and Waqar records to compare to his 12-fer against a strong Aussie lineup in 76, he 7-fer against a strong England lineup in 82, his demolition job of India in 82-83, and his 7-fer in the WI in 88. Those are mighty performances.

Wasim comes next. Obviously, the most talented of the bunch, perhaps of any bunch. But the more you look at his record the more you get a sense that he underachieved. Modest records against England, India, Australia and SA. He was supremely skilled with the ball but himself admits that he was not the best planner and often didnt know what ball he was going to bowl next. During the early 90s, this still meant plenty of wickets, but as the years moved on, he remained crafty, great to watch and hard to play but lost the extra gear in pace, the swerve in his reverse and that penetration that he found in his peak years. Batsmen were content to play him out out of respect and lost their wickets at the other end. He lacks standout performances IMO the way Imran had when he could demolish high quality opposition on his lonesome (just one 7-fer against NZ, for example). You get the sense with Wasim that he could have got 100 more wickets if he applied himself better. Still, my favorite.

Waqar comes last. Devestating peak but short in comparison to his whole career. Without his pace after his back injury in 1994, he never could command the same respect the way Imran and Wasim did once they lost their pace. He was the most inconsistent of the lot and while Imran and Wasim were rarely collared, Waqar was smashed on many occasions as per his blasting out bowling style. Probably the best at reverse swing but really only mastered the new ball very late in his career, so I wouldnt call him the complete bowler like the previous two.At a certain stage in the late 90s, his bowling was so poor he found it hard to get in the team. Also benefited like Wasim from playing against minnows and his record against India, Australia, England, and SA is modest.

What an excellent post Subshakerz, as usuall.

 

[BlazeDragon]

I have never seen Imran play so can't comment. But Waqar is the best for me.

Wasim vs Waqar is a tough one no matter how you look at it. Waqar's peak gave him the edge on statistics but overall Wasim was better. But its Wasim's high amount of tail wickets that pushes Waqar just very slightly past Wasim for me.

 

[smash84]

First comes Imran. Imran essentially passed every major milestone expected of a true all-time great fast bowler and his record is not far from Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee as complete. His record against the best team of his era, WI, was better than any of his peers. He averaged overall less than 25 against everyone except NZ. His record against the strong Indian batting lineups on pure roads is very impressive. He improved as his career moved along, and was as successful when he came back at reduced pace in 1986 as he was at his pace peak, showing a new mastery of the leg cutter. His bowling peak was actually rated the best of all post-war bowlers. As a bowler, he was calculating and you can sense he pushed himself to respond to bigger challenges. Unlike Waqar and Wasim, whose best performances were mostly in tandem, he has quite a few performances where he simply single handedly sliced through a world class batting lineup. I don't see much in Wasim and Waqar records to compare to his 12-fer against a strong Aussie lineup in 76, he 7-fer against a strong England lineup in 82, his demolition job of India in 82-83, and his 7-fer in the WI in 88. Those are mighty performances.

Wasim comes next. Obviously, the most talented of the bunch, perhaps of any bunch. But the more you look at his record the more you get a sense that he underachieved. Modest records against England, India, Australia and SA. He was supremely skilled with the ball but himself admits that he was not the best planner and often didnt know what ball he was going to bowl next. During the early 90s, this still meant plenty of wickets, but as the years moved on, he remained crafty, great to watch and hard to play but lost the extra gear in pace, the swerve in his reverse and that penetration that he found in his peak years. Batsmen were content to play him out out of respect and lost their wickets at the other end. He lacks standout performances IMO the way Imran had when he could demolish high quality opposition on his lonesome (just one 7-fer against NZ, for example). You get the sense with Wasim that he could have got 100 more wickets if he applied himself better. Still, my favorite.

Waqar comes last. Devestating peak but short in comparison to his whole career. Without his pace after his back injury in 1994, he never could command the same respect the way Imran and Wasim did once they lost their pace. He was the most inconsistent of the lot and while Imran and Wasim were rarely collared, Waqar was smashed on many occasions as per his blasting out bowling style. Probably the best at reverse swing but really only mastered the new ball very late in his career, so I wouldnt call him the complete bowler like the previous two.At a certain stage in the late 90s, his bowling was so poor he found it hard to get in the team. Also benefited like Wasim from playing against minnows and his record against India, Australia, England, and SA is modest.

Awesome post if only for one or two minor errors in the stats . Btw Imran does average below 30 against every opposition in all countries he played in. WAG

 

[G.I.Joe]

Waqar Younis.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

See, no long winded post required

 

[salman85]

I recall Wasim saying once to the effect that on some dull pitches he would just resort to bowling looseners outside the off stump.It was an off hand comment but indicative. Maybe its just me, but I thought he lacked that extra yard of willpower that some of the other greats had when they would rarely if ever stop looking for wickets and had a bit more fire in their bellies. Still a fantastic player to watch.

Exactly.

Even Imran noted Wasim's lack of willpower on occasion.I remember Imran saying that when things were not going his way,Wasim's shoulders would start dropping and the level of intensity would drop.Imran also went on to say that Waqar on the other hand would keep on coming back at you even when things were not going his way,with no drop in intensity.

To answer the OP : Wasim > Imran > Waqar

The mere possibility of placing any bowler,let alone one of Imran or Waqar,above Wasim Akram implodes my brain.Huge bias,yes,but one that im proud of.Wasim just had that aura about him that neither Imran or Waqar did.Where Imran was the perfectionist who ruled with an iron fist,and Waqar was a time bomb waiting to go off,Wasim was the spoiled,arrogant genius capable of sheer magic and ridiculous controversy both at the same time.A showman from the word go,and one of the most exciting cricketers the world has ever seen.With all due respect to Imran and Waqar,both of whom i love,Wasim would fill up a stadium quicker than both.Imran would probably beat Wasim if the stadium had a females only night though.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Imran Khan decently ahead of the two Ws, for mine.

As bowlers there's a very thin gap between Waqar and Wasim and ultimately, I believe, it bowls down to personal preference. I'd take Waqar.

Imran and Akram were compared in a thread before and I had made these points there.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Some excellent posts have been made in this thread so far by Subshakerz and a few others.

 

[The Sean]

Loving this thread - Fusion and Cribb making the point about Imran's greatness purely as a bowler that I've also been advocating for years. Forget his batting, his captaincy, his impact, his legacy - at one point during the 1980s he had an eight-series run where he averaged sub-20 in every series, and took 154 wickets at 14.85.

And subshakerz just pwning all.

 

[smash84]

Yeah I think it's a case of revisionist history to view Imran as an allrounder before a great bowler, and that comes from someone who probably wouldn't have Imran in his top fifteen bowlers of all time and yet rates him as the greatest cricketer ever. Imran, before anything else, was an all-time great bowler. It was his intrinsic greatness above all others as a cricketer that saw him succeed in other areas too with (dare I say unPakistanlike) team situational awareness and unwavering commitment to maximum application of skill, but bowling was his true gift and he belongs right up there in the debate with the best of all time in this discipline alone.
.

Tbh Imran wasn't such a naturally gifted bowler like Wasim or Waqar but he worked the hardest of all.

And is that why you rate him the greatest cricketer ever? Unwavering commitment to maximum application of skill?

 

[smash84]

Imran Khan decently ahead of the two Ws, for mine.

As bowlers there's a very thin gap between Waqar and Wasim and ultimately, I believe, it bowls down to personal preference. I'd take Waqar.

Imran and Akram were compared in a thread before and I had made these points there.

awesome post regarding Wasim and Imran OSP

 

[smash84]

Regarding the OP it is Imran > Wasim > Waqar (for test matches)

ODIs Wasim > Waqar > Imran

 

[Prince EWS]

Tbh Imran wasn't such a naturally gifted bowler like Wasim or Waqar but he worked the hardest of all.

Yeah, indeed. I didn't mean to suggest that those attributes that made him a valuable lower order batsman and a good fielder didn't contribute his greatness as a bowler too; merely that it was his bowling where his true gifts lied.

I don't rate him the greatest cricketer because of those attributes as they also lie in some very moderated talented players I've played A Grade park cricket with; you do need exceedingly large amounts of natural talent and skill as well to be a great Test player too and he had that (even if not quite as much as some of the other, actually inferior greats). I certainly think they contributed greatly to his status as such but I rate him the greatest cricketer because I believe he was the most effective throughout his career - to me it's about the end rather than the means. If I had a team of unknown balance described to me as a regular Test team and I was asked to pick one player throughout history to add to it, it would be Imran, and that's my criteria. Regardless of the needs of the team, he would be able to supply them. If the team needed a spearhead, he was a ready made one of the highest class in history. If the batting in the team was disproportionately weak to the bowling, you know Imran would be able to step up and focus more on that aspect of his game. Most of all though you know you'd get a team playing at close to full capacity, such was his leadership, and you know that no talent would go wasted - he had an eagle eye for raw talent and a he knew very well how to mold and lead it.

When people rate cricketers I think there's far too much time and thought given to how they'd go against the best of the best of the best of the best of the best or how likely they'd be to make an all-time XI or a World XI or what have you, when Test cricket is very rarely actually about that at all. Most Tests are won by eliminating weaknesses rather than proliferating strengths, and at Test level - even if not perhaps in All-Time World XI fantasyland - Imran could minimise more weaknesses than any other man in history; IMO at least. No one individual could have more of an impact on the average team.

 

[BlazeDragon]

Imran and Akram were compared in a thread before and I had made these points there.

Hmmm Wasim seems to have won that poll over Imran comfortably in there yet Imran has a big lead over Wasim here. And it was a 2011 thread too. Did people's opinion really change this much over just a few months or is it the number of voters?

 

[Prince EWS]

Hmmm Wasim seems to have won that poll over Imran comfortably in there yet Imran has a big lead over Wasim here. And it was a 2011 thread too. Did people's opinion really change this much over just a few months or is it the number of voters?

Was a 2006 thread tbh.

 

[BlazeDragon]

Was a 2006 thread tbh.

Oh yeah. I just looked at Outswinger@Pace's post which was made in 2011.

Still, both their career was over in 2006 also.

 

[subshakerz]

Loving this thread - Fusion and Cribb making the point about Imran's greatness purely as a bowler that I've also been advocating for years. Forget his batting, his captaincy, his impact, his legacy - at one point during the 1980s he had an eight-series run where he averaged sub-20 in every series, and took 154 wickets at 14.85.

And subshakerz just pwning all.

You are right, Imran is seriously underrated. His career stats would be even more impressive if you discount his career before 75, when he was hardly a bowler or test class, and after 88, when he would have left the team had he not been an excellent batsman and his front line bowling was pretty much finished.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

That's a 12-year period when he was a frontline bowler, during which he completely remodlelled his action unlike any bowler before or since, transformed himself from a medium pacer to fast pace, outperformed his contemporaries in the WSC, mastered reverse swing, performed in and against every country, achieved the highest ranking of any post-war bowler, came back from a career-threatening shin injury with equal success, was better than anybody against perhaps the best team in test history, went something like 7 years without a poor bowling series (80-87) and finally mentored a young Wasim to help him become a legend in his own right.

Add to that the fact that he came from a cricketing culture which had no fast bowlers before him to the point that people suspected it was a biological impossibility, and he left a tangible bowling legacy unlike his peers that continues to this date in Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Aamer, etc. I mean, what more can you ask for?

 

[Top_Cat]

Add to that the fact that he came from a cricketing culture which had no fast bowlers before him to the point that people suspected it was a biological impossibility, and he left a tangible bowling legacy unlike his peers that continues to this date in Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Aamer, etc. I mean, what more can you ask for?

Harsh on Worcestershire, tbh.

 

[Sanz]

You are right, Imran is seriously underrated. His career stats would be even more impressive if you discount his career before 75, when he was hardly a bowler or test class, and after 88, when he would have left the team had he not been an excellent batsman and his front line bowling was pretty much finished.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

That's a 12-year period when he was a frontline bowler, during which he completely remodlelled his action unlike any bowler before or since, transformed himself from a medium pacer to fast pace, outperformed his contemporaries in the WSC, mastered reverse swing, performed in and against every country, achieved the highest ranking of any post-war bowler, came back from a career-threatening shin injury with equal success, was better than anybody against perhaps the best team in test history, went something like 7 years without a poor bowling series (80-87) and finally mentored a young Wasim to help him become a legend in his own right.

But why would you discount Imran's career record before 1975 or after 1988 ? Imran was a great fast bowler but if you are simply going to use selective stats to further rate him , why not also look at his career Away record ? There is a huge difference between his home and away records a lot more than any other great bowler. And isn't it an exaggeration that Imran outperformed his competitors in the WSC ? I would love to see the stats of all the seasons in the WSC, if that is the criteria used to make that suggestion.

And mind you I am not denying that Imran was a great bowler, having watched him bowl, I have no doubt that he is among the greatest but to say that he is seriously under-rated is simply not true. Underrated by whom and where ? I see on this forum he is considered among the best of the best.

Add to that the fact that he came from a cricketing culture which had no fast bowlers before him to the point that people suspected it was a biological impossibility, and he left a tangible bowling legacy unlike his peers that continues to this date in Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Aamer, etc. I mean, what more can you ask for?

I am sorry but I find that hard to consider the above point, Didn't Pakistan have Fazal Mahmood, Sarfaraz etc before Imran ? He came from a cricketing family and definitely had the culture that was different from the one we saw in Pakistan.

 

[Sanz]

Add to that the fact that he came from a cricketing culture which had no fast bowlers before him to the point that people suspected it was a biological impossibility, and he left a tangible bowling legacy unlike his peers that continues to this date in Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Aamer, etc. I mean, what more can you ask for?

And if you Give Imran credit for all the positives of the above cricketers, does he also get the blame for all negatives the above have been part of ?