***Official*** Australia in South Africa

[Woodster]

Sounds to me like Clarke should just stay at 5 averaging 50+ (much like Waugh and Border did) and we'll just slot someone like Khawaja to fill 4 when Ponting retires.

We shall see what happens. I can't see it being a problem in moving Clarke to four if the situation was right to do so, despite his poor record there.

Don't suppose you could rule out Marsh taking over from Hughes at the top and Khawaja slipping in at three either ?

 

[Cabinet96]

haha, love how people are able to notice that moving both Hussey and Clarke from number 4 has turned their form slumps on a 5c piece but simultaneously hold that it shouldn't matter where you bat.

Technically, there should be no difference. If you have the technical game to bat in the top 6 as a FC batter, you have the game to do the same at Test level in any position. It's the mental pressure which makes the difference. Numbers 3 and 4 in the order are closer in terms the kind of all-round game/serene calm you need to bat there than 4 and 5.

I just noticed it when someone sent an emIl in to one of the Aus v SL test commentaries on Cricinfo.

 

[Woodster]

haha, love how people are able to notice that moving both Hussey and Clarke from number 4 has turned their form slumps on a 5c piece but simultaneously hold that it shouldn't matter where you bat.

Technically, there should be no difference. If you have the technical game to bat in the top 6 as a FC batter, you have the game to do the same at Test level in any position. It's the mental pressure which makes the difference. Numbers 3 and 4 in the order are closer in terms the kind of all-round game/serene calm you need to bat there than 4 and 5.

So what do you need at number four ?

Would say number three has affected batsmen in this way, but if you can't bat at four but can at five, there's something not quite right, like you say it must be a mental issue.

 

[Burgey]

Pah, he's obviously too soft to bat higher up the order. You'd never catch Steve Waugh or Allan Border hiding at 5.

Border batted four for most of his career, especially as skipper.

 

[howardj]

Haddin would be thanking his lucky stars that Paine is out injured currently. Haddin looks like he's on his last legs. For mine, Paine's injury is irrelevant as I think Wade is the man to succeed Hadds in the longer form.

 

[Top_Cat]

So what do you need at number four ?

Would say number three has affected batsmen in this way, but if you can't bat at four but can at five, there's something not quite right, like you say it must be a mental issue.

It absolutely is. Why do you think Sachin has studiously avoided batting at 3 for India?

Haddin would be thanking his lucky stars that Paine is out injured currently. Haddin looks like he's on his last legs. For mine, Paine's injury is irrelevant as I think Wade is the man to succeed Hadds in the longer form.

Yep.

 

[howardj]

I think Clarke's innings really hammers home that the best thing he can do for Australia is score runs - we need runs from him more than scintillating captaincy. Same with Ponting during the last two years of his captaincy. The best contribution he could have made was runs.

 

[Top_Cat]

They're related too, nothing better for team morale than when the skipper is smashing them. People are understanding (to a point) if not but if they're in form, absolutely lifts everyone else.

The current Aussie side the exception, of course.

 

[Spikey]

Pah, he's obviously too soft to bat higher up the order. You'd never catch Steve Waugh or Allan Border hiding at 5.

know you're joking but HowSTAT! Player Analysis by Batting Position


Encouraging thing from our top order today was they didn't throw their wickets away. Admittedly Watson and Ponting didn't really get a chance too. But it was nice to see us 5 for **** all and be able to say "well we haven't given them any of those wickets"

 

[howardj]

Interesting to hear Clarke in his presser putting a big emphasis on the sun in terms of the batter-friendliness of the conditions (when the sun was out, conditions were much more benign). Given the fine weather forecast for the next couple of days, this doesn't bode well for Australia. Though I do think Harris will be a massive handful.

 

[Furball]

HowSTAT! Player Analysis by Batting Position

 

[Top_Cat]

tbh I quite liked Steve Waugh at 3, definitely thought he had the game for it. Was only moved back down when new openers started to appear in the early 90's, Boonie was shifted to 3, M Waugh had already established himself at 4, etc. S Waugh could easily have batted anywhere but him batting at 5 was the best fit based on where everyone else's preferences were.

 

[adub]

Border batted four for most of his career, especially as skipper.

Most? Almost exactly a 3rd.

He had 36 innings at 3
88 innings at 4
70 innings at 5
63 innings at 6

His average at 5&6 was 52, so not massively better than his average at 4 of 50, but still he played 2/3s of his career batting 5&6 and it wasn't like he had guys at 3&4 averaging 50+.

Obviously the better comparison is with Waugh though.

 

[Spikey]

 

[robelinda]

Hah hah "don't you hate it when men leave the toilet seat up.....thats the joke"....."YOU SUCK McBAIN!"

 

[adub]

I think Clarke's innings really hammers home that the best thing he can do for Australia is score runs - we need runs from him more than scintillating captaincy. Same with Ponting during the last two years of his captaincy. The best contribution he could have made was runs.

Of course. The reason Ponting lost the captaincy wasn't because his on-field leadership had become any more **** than it always was. He lost the captaincy because he wasn't making enough runs to justify his place in the side. Kim Hughes suffered the same fate (although his demise came much more quickly). It's the way we roll. Had Clarke not come good with the bat his position would have become untenable very quickly. We just don't do Brearley. Now he's back home at 5 I expect he'll be the most consistent batsman for us for the next few years and that will make his Captaincy safe (as well as hopefully winning us lots of matches). His excellent on-field instincts were always just the icing on the cake. But the point stands, no amount of clever bowling changes or field settings will compensate for getting rolled for 200 all the time. His job is first and foremost to go out and average 50+ with the bat.

 

[silentstriker]

I hope Ponting gets back into form but his recent statement and interviews remind me of when older athletes say that they're 'in their best shape of their lives'. Whenever I hear that from an athlete, I know they're done and over the hill.

 

[adub]

tbh I quite liked Steve Waugh at 3, definitely thought he had the game for it. Was only moved back down when new openers started to appear in the early 90's, Boonie was shifted to 3, M Waugh had already established himself at 4, etc. S Waugh could easily have batted anywhere but him batting at 5 was the best fit based on where everyone else's preferences were.

I saw Waugh's ton at 3 (first date with my now wife ) and it was a good gritty knock against a Windies attack back when that still meant something. But he just never backed it up and was found out. Had they stuck with him there I don't think he'd have ended up being anything more than someone like Geoff Marsh. Made a couple of tons, but ended up averaging mid-30s. Once he got back in the side after being dropped he obviously just had a good feeling about batting at 5 and it made sense to leave him there rather than trying to **** with something that was clearly working. I don't think you can really say he would have succeeded anywhere.

 

[Furball]

I hope Ponting gets back into form but his recent statement and interviews remind me of when older athletes say that they're 'in their best shape of their lives'. Whenever I hear that from an athlete, I know they're done and over the hill.

AWTA, sadly.

Everything I've heard from Ponting in the last year just smacks of denial. If he was in the best shape of his life and hitting the ball as well as he's ever done in the nets, you'd think he might score some runs in the middle.

 

[Furball]

Once he got back in the side after being dropped he obviously just had a good feeling about batting at 5 and it made sense to leave him there rather than trying to **** with something that was clearly working. I don't think you can really say he would have succeeded anywhere.

Would Waugh not have had the likes of Taylor, Slater, Boon and his twin brother batting pretty nicely up the order so there was no space for him?

Until Australia sort their **** out at the top of the order, then I think Clarke will unfairly cop a bit of stick if he continues to "hide" at 5 and do well whilst the rest of the lineup is ****.