Butt/Amir/Asif - Spot Fixing Trial

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

That has to be a joke?

Not really. It says a lot actually, mainly that theres no feasible defence for their actions.

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

That is the best defence of that trio that I have ever seen.

Says something about their "defence".

Edit: Beaten...

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Bun

He's repentant. He's a potful of genius. Genius that is human and flawed. But must be given a second chance. Imagine what would've happened if we lost Shane Warne for 5 years in 2003? No Ashes 2005. no 700 wickets. No glory. Yes, he was stupid. He cheated his own wife (a worse crime imho) in personal life. Yet cricket chose to reward his genius on field. Asif, Amir all belong in the same category.

I want them to come back, They deserve a second chance.

Ha, tres bollo. Whilst one might sympathise with Mrs Warne, there's no suggestion Shane accepted money to underperform his husbandly duties, tens of thousands of spectators hadn't paid good money to watch them in the throes of connubial ecstacy and there wasn't a TV audience of millions hanging on the outcome.

Aamer's mea culpa about a year too late. Not only was he bent, he then repeatedly lied about it.

[Bun]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

That is the best defence of that trio that I have ever seen.

But I still think that an example needs to be made out of somebody and better to do it now then let the cancer spread further.

The cancer is spreading because lack of scruples, lack of leadership, lack of mentoring.

People simply don't know what's acceptable, not acceptable, and what's wrong and right.

Look at Amir. Kid, incredibly talented, but as ignorant as a newborn. Can't blame him. His education, upbringing is parsecs away from the "western" world which indicted him. He lives in a world where people have to fight to win a day's bread, heck to live to see the stars and the sun next morning. People completely forget how laws, rules, regulations etc are ultimately products of the society in whcih they live in. And hence relative too.

See, I am not condoning what these chaps did. Idiotic, no doubt. But they simply didn't know better. Atleast am sure Amir did'nt. Darn, at his age, I didn't know one needed to insert and ejaculate manship in womanship to create childship!

It's his only way of earning his daily bread. perhaps the only thing he's good at in his life. He was led astray. He needs to be corrected, not lynched.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Bun

The cancer is spreading because lack of scruples, lack of leadership, lack of mentoring.

People simply don't know what's acceptable, not acceptable, and what's wrong and right.

Look at Amir. Kid, incredibly talented, but as ignorant as a newborn. Can't blame him. His education, upbringing is parsecs away from the "western" world which indicted him. He lives in a world where people have to fight to win a day's bread, heck to live to see the stars and the sun next morning. People completely forget how laws, rules, regulations etc are ultimately products of the society in whcih they live in. And hence relative too.

See, I am not condoning what these chaps did. Idiotic, no doubt. But they simply didn't know better. Atleast am sure Amir did'nt. Darn, at his age, I didn't know one needed to insert and ejaculate manship in womanship to create childship!

It's his only way of earning his daily bread. perhaps the only thing he's good at in his life. He was led astray. He needs to be corrected, not lynched.

This completely contradicts the rest of your post.

[Bun]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Ha, tres bollo. Whilst one might sympathise with Mrs Warne, there's no suggestion Shane accepted money to underperform his husbandly duties, tens of thousands of spectators hadn't paid good money to watch them in the throes of connubial ecstacy and there wasn't a TV audience of millions hanging on the outcome.

Aamer's mea culpa about a year too late. Not only was he bent, he then repeatedly lied about it.

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of,

These 10,000 people who watched this game didn't pledge to spend the rest of their lives with this chap. But Mrs. Warne did. For you and me, end of day, it's just a game, for her, it was her life.

Anyways enough of me pontificating. Summary of matter is : Sins are relative. So are absolutions. But whenever a person's crying out for it, his call must be answered. Otherwise how are we human?

[Bun]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

This completely contradicts the rest of your post.

No mate, it doesn't. Read it again. People need not be disciplined through punishments alone. Sometimes forgiveness can set better deterrents.

[smalishah84]

The question that Bun points at is whether these (or any) crimes are forgivable? Spot-fixing.....tbh I didn't even know what it was before this episode (was aware of match-fixing) to what extent (if any) is pardonable? Does spot-fixing undermine the whole match? If it does then why did the ICC only hand out a 5 year ban?

[8ankitj]

Bun is winning this thread, IMO.

I do have some empathy with Amer and would like to see him getting another chance, after whatever number of years of ban he serves. No such feelings for Butt and Asif, though.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by smalishah84

The question that Bun points at is whether these (or any) crimes are forgivable? Spot-fixing.....tbh I didn't even know what it was before this episode (was aware of match-fixing) to what extent (if any) is pardonable? Does spot-fixing undermine the whole match? If it does then why did the ICC only hand out a 5 year ban?

Of course it does.

Amir and Asif might only have performed the "minor" crime of bowling no-balls to order, but how's that different to accepting cash to bowl poorly? They accepted cash bribes to underperform (iirc Amir had yet to bowl a no-ball in his entire First Class career before the incident).

Allowing charlatans such as these 3 to step out on a cricket field once their bans are done makes a mockery of the sport and makes a mockery of the thousands of players around the globe who play out of love for the game. All actions must have consequences.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by 8ankitj

Bun is winning this thread, IMO.

I do have some empathy with Amer and would like to see him getting another chance, after whatever number of years of ban he serves. No such feelings for Butt and Asif, though.

Why is Amir any different? If anything, Amir is the least deserving of empathy.

[Jono]

Had Amir not lied I'd be fine with him not being banned for life, whilst Butt and Asif clearly should be.

But his constant lying, and he knew what he was doing, removes the naivety defence.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Bun

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of,

These 10,000 people who watched this game didn't pledge to spend the rest of their lives with this chap. But Mrs. Warne did. For you and me, end of day, it's just a game, for her, it was her life.

Anyways enough of me pontificating. Summary of matter is : Sins are relative. So are absolutions. But whenever a person's crying out for it, his call must be answered. Otherwise how are we human?

You're really suggesting that deliberately underperforming in a sporting contest for a fiscal inducement with a view to defrauding bookmakers isn't "grave"?

I seriously have no response.

[8ankitj]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

Why is Amir any different? If anything, Amir is the least deserving of empathy.

I don't know great deal about Amer, the individual, may be he is filth, may be he is not. But he was just 18 when he transgressed, is still a teenager. He can be given another chance, his life and career have only just begun.

[Daemon]

Originally Posted by Bun

Darn, at his age, I didn't know one needed to insert and ejaculate manship in womanship to create childship!

You didn't know what sex was when you were 18? ITSTL

Originally Posted by Bun

You forget, that bowling a no ball deliberately did not lessen the enjoyment or the outcome of that match. It's not as grave as you suggest, or want to make it look like. It's just a bloody no ball in the end. End of,

These 10,000 people who watched this game didn't pledge to spend the rest of their lives with this chap. But Mrs. Warne did. For you and me, end of day, it's just a game, for her, it was her life.

Anyways enough of me pontificating. Summary of matter is : Sins are relative. So are absolutions. But whenever a person's crying out for it, his call must be answered. Otherwise how are we human?

The no ball was not all he may have done, it was done simply to prove to the 'client' (reporter) that Mazhar Majeed had influence and control over the players. He may have underperformed prior to this, or even more after if he hadn't been exposed.

Not only that, the guy clearly tried all ways and means to squirm his way out of this entire incident, lying outright about his involvement. What makes you think he genuinely felt that his actions were wrong if he doesn't even want to accept his wrongdoings? Pleading guilty after he had basically no option remaining doesn't do jack**** in convincing me that he feels remorse.

If he wasn't such a talented bastard no one would give a ****. 5 years is lenient enough, he can still make a comeback after that period and his career isn't entirely over. I understand that he's young and naive due to the culture that he was brought up in, which is why he has been given that chance to make a come back provided he works hard enough on his own.

Theres a reason why ignorance is never an accepted excuse, and I'm sure you know what that reason is. The effect that a severe ban will have on the trio is valuable to cricket as a whole, young players in the future won't take the risk of losing their entire career for money as opposed to losing out just a few years if they can simply feign ignorance.