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All time XI's

iamdavid

International Debutant
Looks pretty good to me

Welcome to the board Bennyr

Im going to do an all time world XI

1.S.Gavaskar
2.*L.Hutton
3.D.Bradman
4.G.Headley
5.G.Sobers
6.S.Tendulkar
7.+R.Marsh
8.R.Hadlee
9.M.Marshall
10.D.Lillee
11.S.Warne
12th man.I.Khan
 

bennyr

U19 12th Man
Warne is god said:
bennyr who's captian?
I was sort of hoping not to have to answer that question. I think I'd have given it to Waugh if he'd have made the first 11, but I think in honour of the extreme improvement made under his captaincy I'd give it to Border.
 

bennyr

U19 12th Man
iamdavid said:
Looks pretty good to me

Welcome to the board Bennyr

Im going to do an all time world XI

1.S.Gavaskar
2.*L.Hutton
3.D.Bradman
4.G.Headley
5.G.Sobers
6.S.Tendulkar
7.+R.Marsh
8.R.Hadlee
9.M.Marshall
10.D.Lillee
11.S.Warne
12th man.I.Khan
Thanks iamdavid,

I like you batting line-up, but I think your bowlers are too recent. Mine would look a bit like this:

1.S.Gavaskar
2.J.Hobbs
3.*D.Bradman
4.G.Headley
5.G.Sobers
6.B.Richards
7.+C.Walcott
8.R.Hadlee
10.D.Lillee
10.S.F.Barnes
11.W.O'Reilly

Other squad members:
Imran Khan
L.Hutton
S.Tendulkar
M.Marshall

Again, I laboured long and hard over captaincy. Big temptation to leave Hobbs out for Hutton, but I think this is the better side.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Ahead of Headley, Sobers, Tendulkar? Not a chance. Personally I would play 4 bowlers and pick another bat.
 

archie mac

International Coach
All Time Australian 11 begining with the letter H

Hayden
Hassett
Harvey
Kim Hughes
Hendrey
Healy
Hopkins
Hawke
Merv Hughes
Hogg
 

C_C

International Captain
My alltime XI:

Gavaskar
X ( tough choice between Langer,Simpson,Greenidge,Haynes,Gooch and Boycs)
Bradman
Tendulkar
Viv
Sobers
Gillchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Murali.

Captaincy: Easy as a pie- Imran Khan.
 

archie mac

International Coach
C_C said:
My alltime XI:

Gavaskar
X ( tough choice between Langer,Simpson,Greenidge,Haynes,Gooch and Boycs)
Bradman
Tendulkar
Viv
Sobers
Gillchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Murali.

Captaincy: Easy as a pie- Imran Khan.
Off the fence C_C pick an opener?
 

C_C

International Captain
If i had to pick an opener to partner Gavaskar, i would have to go with Langer...though it is very very close between Justin, Simpson, Greenidge and Haynes in my opinion.
 

Slifer

International Captain
WI

A

Haynes
Greenidge
Richards*
Lara
Richardson
Sobers
Dujon+
Marshall
Croft
Walsh
Gibbs

B

Hunte
Fredricks
Weekes
Kanhai
Lloyd*
Walcott
Nurse
Ambrose
Roberts
Bishop
Ramadin

C

Rae
Stollmeyer
Headley
Worrell*
Kallicharan
Rowe
D.Murray+
Holding
Garner
Hall
Griffith

Too many players to choose from and I found it hard to leave out certain players. For those who have the same 'problem' as I do maybe a similar approach may help!! Neither of the 3 teams is stonger than the other IMO just needed 3 balanced sides.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
World

J Hobbs
S Gavaskar
D Bradman*
G Pollock
W Hammond
G Sobers
A Gilchrist+
Imran Khan
M Marshall
M Muralitharan
S Barnes

12th Man: R Hadlee

England

J Hobbs*
L Hutton
W Hammond
D Compton
K Barrington
I Botham
A Knott+
J Laker
F Trueman
A Bedser
S Barnes

12th Man: G Grace

England A

H Sutcliffe
G Boycott
P May*
K Ranjitsinhji
E Dexter
W Rhodes
M Tate
G Evans+
H Verity
F Tyson
B Statham

12th Man: D Gower/D Underwood

Australia

V Trumper
A Morris
D Bradman*
N Harvey
G Chappell
K Miller
A Gilchrist+
R Lindwall
D Lillee
W O'Reilly
G McGrath

12th Man: S Warne

Australia A

W Ponsford
M Hayden
R Ponting
S McCabe
S Waugh
A Border
I Healy+
R Benaud*
A Davidson
J Gillespie
C Grimmett

12th Man: C Macartney

West Indies

C Hunte
V Richards*
G Headley
E Weekes
B Lara
G Sobers
J Dujon+
M Marshall
M Holding
C Ambrose
J Garner

12th Man: L Constantine

West Indies A

G Greenidge
D Haynes
R Kanhai
C Walcott
C Lloyd
F Worrell*
D Murray+
W Hall
A Roberts
L Gibbs
C Walsh

12th Man: R Harper
 

archie mac

International Coach
a massive zebra said:
World



England

J Hobbs*
L Hutton
W Hammond
D Compton
K Barrington
I Botham
A Knott+
J Laker
F Trueman
A Bedser
S Barnes

12th Man: G Grace

England A

H Sutcliffe
G Boycott
P May*
K Ranjitsinhji
E Dexter
W Rhodes
M Tate
G Evans+
H Verity
F Tyson
B Statham

12th Man: D Gower/D Underwood
Not bad I thought F.S. Jackson may have made one of your English sides. Who is G. Grace? The missing brother :D Though apparently his family and close friends always called him Gilbert. :)
 

C_C

International Captain
Zebra- not bad.

For the world team, i would pick Tendulkar ahead of Pollock - he has played far longer, faced a considerably tougher test of bowlers and averages just 3 points lower. Would also pick Viv Richards over Hammond and Richard Hadlee over Sid barnes.

For England, i definately would have Boycott in the team - over Jack hobbs. In almost any hypothetical head-2-head, openers will get to face pace bowlers of extremely high quality-that is an area Hobbs had very little experience in, as he faced spin based attacks for most of his career. Not to mention, he is from the amatuer era.
Or you could have Hobbs come down the order instead of Compton.
But in my eyes, Boycott is the best English opener ever.

For Australia, i wouldnt go with Trumper- the man reputedly had an attractive game But his achievements are rather ordinary. Even if you bring up the case of uncovered pitches, Bob Simpson gets ahead of him. And instead of Neil Harvey, i would have Border or Steve Waugh.
Instead of Lillee, i would have Alan Davidson and instead of O'Reiley, i would have Warney.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
For those making All-Time XI, I thought it was drastic to pick Murali over Warne. I found an article that was very informing about the pair at the time where they were both playing and were close to each other in the wicket stakes:

Warne vs. Murali

Warne:
Tests: 114
Wickets: 537
Average: 25.64
5 WI: 27
10 WM: 8

Muralitharan:
Tests: 91
Wickets: 532
Average: 22.86
5 WI: 44
10 WM: 13

On the face of it, Murali may have been the youngest and fastest in terms of tests to the 500 wicket mark in tests but figures may show that there is nothing much to choose between Warne and the wily off Spinner from Kandy. Both have hurled down nearly similar number of overs in tests they have bowled, though Murali has played in lesser tests, he has bowled almost the same number of overs. And there’s so much similarity as regards the strike rate, almost every 10 overs bowled, both get their wickets on the average. The major difference comes when one takes the concept of playing conditions. Warne has played more tests at home compared to Murali, but its too lopsided for Murali, he has been more successful in the matches played within the sub-continent rather than outside! And most of the wins have come at home for Sri Lanka, he does have a great rate of taking an average of 5 wickets every test, but that’s doesn’t really suit the team’ cause, the others let him down.
Ultimately to conclude this comparison of the bests, I would say Murali does a One Bowler show for Sri Lanka, whereas Warne is just one of the superstars for Australia, there is McGrath, Gillespie, and Brett Lee who torment the batsmen and keep tugging away at the wickets column every now and then. Probably that’s why Warne has had to wait for more number of tests to get to the World Record!
 
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C_C

International Captain
Oh dear. Not the Murali vs Warney argument again.
Not many aussies or english fans will concede that Warney is inferior to Murali but that is the viewpoint i hold- though both are alltime greats.
 

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
C_C said:
Oh dear. Not the Murali vs Warney argument again.
Not many aussies or english fans will concede that Warney is inferior to Murali but that is the viewpoint i hold- though both are alltime greats.
And not many subcontinentals will go the other way either. Both sides think they have good arguments, but there's not much point going over it again.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
archie mac said:
Not bad I thought F.S. Jackson may have made one of your English sides.
Jackson was indeed a marvellous all round cricketer who thrived on captaincy, leading from the front in a manner rather reminiscent of Graham Gooch (although with much greater results). His Test record was unmatched in the pre-war era and this marked success is all the more surprising when you consider that he only averaged low 30s for Yorkshire. However, my main problem when considering him for selection in the England selection was who to drop, and no one really stood out as a weak link. Perhaps he could replace Tate in the second team to boulster the rather weak lower order batting - we would still have four great bowlers in Rhodes, Verity, Tyson and Statham.

However, I am not sure the selection of Jackson would do much for team morale. He was apparently a pompous twit, and a martinet so far as professionals were concerned. Joe Darling once told a story which perfectly illustrated Jackson's outlook, where the Yorkshireman pulled rank on 'that fine little English professional, J.T. Brown' when the Australians were playing Yorkshire. 'The amateur called Brown for an impossible run, and Brown said, "No, Sir."' He was then rebuked and told to run whenever he was called, without hesitation. A little while later Jackson called Brown again for a short single: Brown ran as instructed, and much to the Australians delight, Jackson had run himself out.
 
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a massive zebra

International Captain
KaZoH0lic said:
For those making All-Time XI, I thought it was drastic to pick Murali over Warne. I found an article that was very informing about the pair at the time where they were both playing and were close to each other in the wicket stakes:
This is my take on it.

Points in Favour of Murali

1) Warne has failed dismally against the best players of spin – India (43 wickets at 47.18). Murali has done far better against them (51 wickets at 32.94).

2) Murali has a better average, strike rate, economy rate, and takes more wickets per match than Warne; despite the fact that Warne has not had to play against the world's best team.

3) Murali has a better record against all countries, except South Africa and Pakistan.

4) Murali is far more consistent. Warne has been known to be hammered occasionally and although Murali has previously been nullified to a degree, he is very rarely hit around the park.

Warne
45 7 150 1 3.33 3rd Test v Ind in Aus 1991/92 at Sydney
30 7 122 1 4.07 1st Test v Ind in Ind 1997/98 at Chennai
42 4 147 0 3.50 2nd Test v Ind in Ind 1997/98 at Kolkata
34 3 152 1 4.47 2nd Test v Ind in Ind 2000/01 at Kolkata
42 7 140 2 3.33 3rd Test v Ind in Ind 2000/01 at Chennai
30 6 108 2 3.60 3rd Test v SA in SA 2001/02 at Durban
38 7 129 3 3.39 2nd Test v SL in Aus 2004 at Cairns
32 4 115 2 3.59 1st Test v Ind in Ind 2004/2005 at Nagpur

Murali
36 6 123 1 3.42 1 L 1st Test v Pak in SL 1994 at Colombo
54 3 224 2 4.15 2 L 1st Test v Aus in Aus 1995/96 at Perth
33 6 136 0 4.12 1 L 1st Test v NZ in NZ 1996/97 at Dunedin

5) Warne is part of a stronger bowling attack. If Warne was of equal ability to Murali he would take less wickets per match than Murali (because there are four good bowlers competing for wickets), but would have a lower average and strike rate (because greater pressure is put on the batsman by bowlers at the other end). For an example of this take two great fast bowlers, Marshall and Hadlee - Marshall having a better average because the high class West Indian bowlers put greater pressure on the batsmen, but Hadlee took more wickets per match because there was less competition for them. Same with Lindwall vs Bedser, Ambrose vs Akram, Laker vs Tayfield, and many, many others. Murali takes more wickets per match and has a lower average and strike rate.

6) A high proportion of Warne's test wickets are numbers 10 and 11 in the batting order; Murali does well against all batting positions. When they were both on 527 wickets, Warne had taken the wickets of batsmen 8-11 190 times, Murali had done it 162 times - a significant difference of 17%. And we all know it is far more valuable to be able to defeat players of high ability, because they can really make you suffer. Tailenders will usually get out sooner rather than later anyway, and very rarely turn a match on its head (with the bat anyway). What’s the point in Warne taking the wickets of Nehra or Walsh game after game, if he cannot trouble Tendulkar or Lara?

7) Although Warne has been less effective since his shoulder injury, even at his peak (1993-97) he was not as good as Murali has been this century.

Mat O M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
Murali 2000-2003 37 2347.3 684 4990 258 19.34 9-51 22 10 54.5 2.13
Warne 1993-97 57 2876.5 938 6457 277 23.31 8-71 11 3 62.3 2.24

8) Murali on top form is more devastating than Warne on top form.

Best innings:

9/51 M Muralitharan v Zimbabwe at Kandy, 2nd Test, 2001/02 [1583]
9/65 M Muralitharan v England at The Oval, Only Test, 1998 [1423]
8/71 SK Warne v England at Brisbane, 1st Test, 1994/95
8/87 M Muralitharan v India at Colombo (SSC), 3rd Test, 2001 [1559]

Best Series:

Murali
Sri Lanka in Pakistan, 1999/00 [Series]
3 213.1 516 26 6/71 19.84 2.42 49.1 1 1
South Africa in Sri Lanka, 2000 [Series]
3 227.4 480 26 7/84 18.46 2.10 52.5 3 1
Zimbabwe in Sri Lanka, 2001/02 [Series]
3 203.1 294 30 9/51 9.80 1.44 40.6 2 1
England in Sri Lanka, 2003/04 [Series]
3 231.4 320 26 7/46 12.30 1.38 53.4 1 1
Australia in Sri Lanka, 2003/04 [Series]
3 209.1 649 28 6/59 23.17 3.10 44.8 4 1

Warne
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 1993 [Series]
6 439.5 877 34 5/82 25.79 1.99 77.6 1 0
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in Australia, 1994/95 [Series]
5 256.1 549 27 8/71 20.33 2.14 56.9 2 1
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2001 [Series]
5 195.2 580 31 7/165 18.70 2.96 37.8 3 1
Australia v Pakistan Test Series in Sri Lanka/U.A.E., 2002/03 [Series]
3 124 342 27 7/94 12.66 2.75 27.5 2 1
Australia in Sri Lanka, 2003/04 [Series]
3 168 521 26 5/43 20.03 3.10 38.7 4 2
The Ashes (Aus/Eng) in England, 2005 [Series]
5 252.5 797 40 6/46 12/246 19.92 3.15 37.9 3 2


9) You could take a look at their respective records in the English county championship (note Murali was by far the star bowler in every season he played, while several Hampshire bowlers took wickets more cheaply than Warne in all his seasons):

Mat B M R W Ave Best 5wi 10w SR Econ
Murali 25 7695 391 2735 185 14.78 7-39 21 6 41.5 2.13
Warne 36 8423 323 3858 162 23.81 6-34 9 0 51.9 2.74

10) One reason why Warne is rated so highly is Gatting’s reaction to the so called “ball of the century.” The shock that that ball sent through the cricketing world was immense because it was thought no one else could bowl that delivery. Actually, Warne was not the only one to bowl such a delivery in recent years, Abdul Qadir had bowled the same delivery a few years earlier, it just wasn’t highlighted at the time because it wasn't on such a big stage. Murali bowled similar balls which were every bit as good to both Sadgapan Ramesh and Mark Butcher a few years ago.

Warne constantly gets so many accolades/awards that he doesn't deserve, purely through a God like reputation galvanised by ill educated media hype. In truth, his career has been highly inconsistent, he has constantly failed against the best, benefited from the opportunity to nail tails after McGrath and co have dismissed the better batsmen, and his overall career figures fall short of the truely great category.

Points in Favour of Warne

1) Has much greater competition for wickets, and yet still has more victims than any other Test bowler in history.

2) Has not had the opportunity to destroy Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. Murali has taken over a fifth of his wickets against these teams while Warne has played a combined total of 2 matches against them.

3) Has a better average and strike rate outside Sri Lanka than Murali.

4) Recognised by the (biased) Anglo-Australian media as the best spinner of all times.

5) At his peak he had more variation than Murali.

6) He has a better record away from home than Murali.

7) Does not get the opportunity to play half his matches on dustbowls.

Conclusion: Murali > Warne
 
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