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Something to make Australians happy-Hilditch and Chappell got the chuck

Ruckus

Ruckus

International Captain
Haha yeh, it's like if skills in those areas are lacking, what exactly have the players been instructed about for the past few years? How to shine a cricket ball? Advanced hair regrowth techniques perhaps?
 
T

tooextracool

International Coach
Whilst the key areas for the bowling are actually fairly accurate, the bowlers were woeful in the Ashes series and could not bowl to a semblance of a plan. Also, in general Australian bowlers (along with bowlers around the world) seem generally incompetent at generating swing (both conventional and reverse) especially in comparison to their English counterparts.

However, I think the criticism over the batting and fielding is probably a little harsh. They might not be the world beaters they once were, but I think they are fairly competent in both of those areas.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
DeusEx said:
Haha yeh, it's like if skills in those areas are lacking, what exactly have the players been instructed about for the past few years? How to shine a cricket ball? Advanced hair regrowth techniques perhaps?
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:laugh:

tooextracool said:
Whilst the key areas for the bowling are actually fairly accurate, the bowlers were woeful in the Ashes series and could not bowl to a semblance of a plan. Also, in general Australian bowlers (along with bowlers around the world) seem generally incompetent at generating swing (both conventional and reverse) especially in comparison to their English counterparts.

However, I think the criticism over the batting and fielding is probably a little harsh. They might not be the world beaters they once were, but I think they are fairly competent in both of those areas.
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But isn't the English bowlers' ability to bowl swing (at least conventional) a direct outcome of the conditions they play in? I can't imagine the English bowlers getting this kind of swing on the wickets (read as roads) in Pakistan or Dubai for that matter. Pak bowlers got plenty of swing last year as well so the conditions do play a big role
 
T

tooextracool

International Coach
smalishah84 said:
But isn't the English bowlers' ability to bowl swing (at least conventional) a direct outcome of the conditions they play in? I can't imagine the English bowlers getting this kind of swing on the wickets (read as roads) in Pakistan or Dubai for that matter. Pak bowlers got plenty of swing last year as well so the conditions do play a big role
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The key here is comparable conditions. We saw in 2005 and 2009 that Australia's bowlers got consistently less out of the same conditions than England. Why is that? In 2009, James Anderson was swinging the ball around corners at Edgbaston and Lords and bar Hilfenhaus not one Australian bowler was able to get the ball off the straight. The answer is not always Murray Mints.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
but then Australian bowlers are not really known for their swing are they? They play with the kookaburra balls which don't quite swing much. The only others who play domestic cricket with Duke balls is Pakistan I believe.

I didn't watch the Ashes too much last time but was there lots of swing by the English bowlers and not much by the Australian bowlers or both had similar swing?
 
howardj

howardj

International Coach
It's good to see that the review puts the players' performance in the gun

I particularly like the part of the report that notes a ''graduation mentality'', whereby players who have appeared at a certain level no longer feel obliged to play at the previous level. This, it says, is ''unacceptable''. You do get the feeling that many players in the Australian team seem to look down their noses at club and Shield cricket, and would rather take time off than play at those lower levels. I also like that the report doubts that conservative management of fast bowlers has worked. Generally, it recommends harder work for everyone.

In many ways, it's too easy to just blame CA, Hilditch and Nielsen. While no doubt these guys have to be boned, I think the players must take their fair share of the blame too. To that end, the part where the report notes the lack of patience and application of the batsmen, the lack of bowlers being patient and bowling to a plan, and the huge slip in fielding standards (and that fielding is a barometer for enthusiasm) is a damning reflection on the professionalism of the current players.

Anyway, as I recommended in the domestic season thread, it looks like guys such as Rod Marsh and Steve Rixon are early favourites for the new roles. It's would be good to see those type of hardened characters being involved.

To be clear, even if every recommendation of the review was implemented tomorrow, Australia will take a long time to ascend back up the Test rankings. For one, we no longer have truly world class players. Given Ponting's struggles of recent times, and the wildly inconsistent Johnson and to a lesser extent Clarke, I honestly can't name one truly world class player in our ranks (edit - except Watson). In many ways though, that's why getting things like selection, coaching and admininstration right is so important...if you haven't got the world class players, then making every post a winner in those areas is essential. Otherwise the gap between you and the top teams gets even wider.
 
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Redbacks

Redbacks

International Captain
CA has to join the 21st century and start giving players more feedback. It will be a shame if we sack a few people and then continue with players being told at the last second they have lost contracts or are being dropped because the whole side played poorly in a series even if they were worthy of top 25 criteria etc.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Long overdue. Hilditch is a very unimpressive individual. Comes across as a bloke who's never seen a buck he didn't want to pass.

My reading is that Chappell stays on as "national talent manager" (no, me neither) in a non-selectorial capacity tho. Which could be a shunting aside of the "we no pay no feelthy compo" variety by CA, but could mean he'll still be around the national side.

Nielsen should go too. Nice bloke, but patently evidence of the Peter Principle in full effect.
 
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T

tooextracool

International Coach
howardj said:
It's good to see that the review puts the players' performance in the gun

I particularly like the part of the report that notes a ''graduation mentality'', whereby players who have appeared at a certain level no longer feel obliged to play at the previous level. This, it says, is ''unacceptable''. You do get the feeling that many players in the Australian team seem to look down their noses at club and Shield cricket, and would rather take time off than play at those lower levels. I also like that the report doubts that conservative management of fast bowlers has worked. Generally, it recommends harder work for everyone.

In many ways, it's too easy to just blame CA, Hilditch and Nielsen. While no doubt these guys have to be boned, I think the players must take their fair share of the blame too. To that end, the part where the report notes the lack of patience and application of the batsmen, the lack of bowlers being patient and bowling to a plan, and the huge slip in fielding standards (and that fielding is a barometer for enthusiasm) is a damning reflection on the professionalism of the current players.

Anyway, as I recommended in the domestic season thread, it looks like guys such as Rod Marsh and Steve Rixon are early favourites for the new roles. It's would be good to see those type of hardened characters being involved.

To be clear, even if every recommendation of the review was implemented tomorrow, Australia will take a long time to ascend back up the Test rankings. For one, we no longer have truly world class players. Given Ponting's struggles of recent times, and the wildly inconsistent Johnson and to a lesser extent Clarke, I honestly can't name one truly world class player in our ranks (edit - except Watson). In many ways though, that's why getting things like selection, coaching and admininstration right is so important...if you haven't got the world class players, then making every post a winner in those areas is essential. Otherwise the gap between you and the top teams gets even wider.
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Is there any particular reason for Australia's continuing shunning of International coaches? Granted no one knows the system as well as someone internal, and sure every country went through that phase where they thought Australian coaches were the best in the world. However there are some fine international coaches around at the moment and it's a comes as a bit of a surprise that there isn't as much as a consideration for someone from the outside.
 
andyc

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
loled at this bit from one of the Cricinfo articles on it.

"I got an email overnight from a good friend of mine in England and he said 'now that we're No. 1, would you like some input into your report' and I said 'as a matter of fact I was thinking of putting in a recommendation that we get a Zimbabwean coach and four South Africans into the side'," Argus joked.
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Does anyone know where you can get the report in its entirety?
 
adub

adub

International Captain
Huge tick for the Board making the review public immediately. Very, very good sign for transparency and accountability.
 
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