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Swing and Seam

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
Is it possible to bowl a delivery which not only swings but also uses the seam of the ball? For example can a fast bowler bowl a delivery that swings inwards and is also an off-cutter?
 

Spikey

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pretty sure there's a steyn ball like this

edit or maybe he just angled it in, i dunno know
 
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Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Is it possible to bowl a delivery which not only swings but also uses the seam of the ball? For example can a fast bowler bowl a delivery that swings inwards and is also an off-cutter?
It is possible for a ball to swing and then go the opposite direction off the seam but it happens by chance. I dont believe it is a delivery that a bowler could bowl on command.

An intentional off-cutter, for example, will not swing as the fingers come down the side of the ball and the seam does not stay 'proud.' Few bowlers today bowl genuine off or leg cutters. They rather do 'a bit off the seam' and concentrate on getting the seam in good positions rather than putting action on the ball.
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
Yeah, I can't see how a cutter would swing. I have seen a few balls move off the seam after swinging though. A recent example would be Anderson's ball to bowl Laxman, second innings at Trent Bridge - swung in and then seamed away.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
pretty sure there's a steyn ball like this

edit or maybe he just angled it in, i dunno know
Nah don't think so. Steyn doesn't really use his inswinger, assuming he has one.

Anderson has one (a ball that swings in and seams away, that is). Asif had one.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Is it possible to bowl a delivery which not only swings but also uses the seam of the ball? For example can a fast bowler bowl a delivery that swings inwards and is also an off-cutter?
Yes. Inswingeres generally move out after hitting the seam, but there are bowlers who swing and seam it both in. Prime examples are Javagal Srinath and Nuwan Kulasekara. Fanie de Villiers used to do the vice versa.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I can't see how a cutter would swing. I have seen a few balls move off the seam after swinging though. A recent example would be Anderson's ball to bowl Laxman, second innings at Trent Bridge - swung in and then seamed away.
Ha! then have a look at Srinath then.

Javagal Srinath's fiery spell of bowling - YouTube - ball to Stewart

another instance: Javagal Srinath 6/21 vs South Africa 1st test 1996/97 Ahmedabad - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBenckVnkqA: Slater gets an inswing-incut ball.
 

Daemon

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Yes. Inswingeres generally move out after hitting the seam, but there are bowlers who swing and seam it both in. Prime examples are Javagal Srinath and Nuwan Kulasekara. Fanie de Villiers used to do the vice versa.
Yes, though none of those are off/leg cutters, where the fingers are intentionally rolled over one side of the ball. No one is arguing that after a ball swings, it can't hit the seam and move away or into the batsmen. That happens all the time.
 

Agent Nationaux

International Coach
So are these deliveries, where the ball swings, and then moves away or into the batsman after hitting the seam controllable?
 

Daemon

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Don't think they can control it, else they'd be doing it every other ball. That sort of thing usually happens as long as you've got a good seam position on which the ball lands or due to assistance from the pitch. I may be wrong but that's the to the best of my knowledge.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Few bowlers today bowl genuine off or leg cutters. They rather do 'a bit off the seam' and concentrate on getting the seam in good positions rather than putting action on the ball.
Why is this, in your opinion?
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Swing and seam happens all the time, its just that it is rarely noticed. An outswinger that hits the seam and moves away (which happens very regularly btw) is still considered to be an outswinger and not a seamer/legcutter.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Why is this, in your opinion?
Good question. Possibly because they take a lot of skill and practice to bowl consistently well. Maybe because coaches now concentrate on a fixed wrist position to keep the seam poud and bowlers are less comfortable with the grip for cutters. It could be that people concentrate on pace and swing and cutters take a few kph off the ball and it will not swing. Also, tracks at the top level are not as conducive to cutting the ball off the seam as they used to be.

If you take a look at the grip for an off-cutter



It can feel awkward in the hand. I practiced for years bowling this ball but I can count the number of occasions on one hand where I bowled it in a game.

Whatever the reason, it is now something of a lost art.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
wow.....didn't know about the lost art thing......Fazal Mahmood was apparently very good at cutters and so was Alec Bedser but as you mention the pitches in those days really supported these deliveries
 

Jacknife

International Captain
Nah don't think so. Steyn doesn't really use his inswinger, assuming he has one.

Anderson has one (a ball that swings in and seams away, that is). Asif had one.
Yes, Jimmy's had a few like that this series, where he swings one in then hit's the seam away.
 

Top_Cat

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Yeah, I'm largely in line with what Goughy says. Keeping the seam up and bowling a line to allow for the chance of seam movement the other way is the usual thing these days. Guys who bowl with big cut are a bit of an anomaly and I don't really know why. Craig McDermott is a great example of a bloke who could always swing the ball away but became genuinely dangerous when he started bringing the occasional ball back in. Means the decision about whether to leave or play has to be made much later.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Hoggy developed a pretty decent off-cutter in the mid-latter part of his test career too. Famously only swung it the one way and was more adept with the new ball than the old, but his variation meant he did rather well in the sub-continent, which one wouldn't necessarily have guessed beforehand. Averaged something like 23 in India.
 

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