Swing and Seam

[Manee]

That shouldn't be funny, because it doesn't make sense, but it is.

 

[benchmark00]

Of course it's possible, it happens in England all the time after the ball passes the stumps.

It does that all over the world, and the reason it does that is because the green grass of the field creates a cooler air temperature above it which makes it more conducive to swing.

To get it to swing both ways whilst on the pitch is truly phenomenal though and there's surely no way you can teach someone to do it.

 

[smash84]

Guys get taught these days to just focus on keeping the seam upright because it allows for both swing and the possibility of seam movement, whereas your genuine cutters cancelled out the possibility of swing.

There's not doubt in recent times in Australia, especially since the 2005 Ashes, there's a massive preoccupation with swinging the ball opposed to getting genuine cut on the ball.

A guy who actually varied it a bit a few years back here was Tim Southee. Would swing it then roll his fingers across every now and again and get it to keep its line. Was really dangerous actually.

It's not actually that difficult to swing the ball both ways, it's all reliant on your arm position at the point of delivery.

If you're a natural outswing bowler, if you get your arm up even higher (to the point where it's past your ear) you then create the angle which is conducive to in swing bowling.

Ofcourse that's the general way, but it's largely down to your action as to which way you naturally swing the ball.

It does that all over the world, and the reason it does that is because the green grass of the field creates a cooler air temperature above it which makes it more conducive to swing.

To get it to swing both ways whilst on the pitch is truly phenomenal though and there's surely no way you can teach someone to do it.

Benchy must be high. 3 top quality posts in a row without the usual crap. The world is coming to an end

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Benchy can I have some of the stuff you have been sm00king.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

Hoggy developed a pretty decent off-cutter in the mid-latter part of his test career too.

IIRC, he did that pretty much still in the initial stages of his career. I have vivid memories of Hoggy and Flintoff being very effective in the Indian tour of 2001/02. The former bowled very good off-cutters on that tour with the old ball and that accounted for his success, as you have rightly mentioned. And that was Hoggy's first overseas tour where he impressed one and all (converting me in the process as well )!

From my overall observations, the man preferred to swing the ball and never made a conscious effort to cut it unless on a really dead track and/or if the ball was really old.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

As usual, a few very good posts on fast bowling from Goughy. My thoughts on the issue are the same as this one:

... Possibly because they take a lot of skill and practice to bowl consistently well. Maybe because coaches now concentrate on a fixed wrist position to keep the seam poud and bowlers are less comfortable with the grip for cutters. It could be that people concentrate on pace and swing and cutters take a few kph off the ball and it will not swing. Also, tracks at the top level are not as conducive to cutting the ball off the seam as they used to be.

....

It can feel awkward in the hand. I practiced for years bowling this ball but I can count the number of occasions on one hand where I bowled it in a game.

Whatever the reason, it is now something of a lost art.

In my personal experience, the leg-cutter has always been an awfully difficult delivery to bowl compared to the the off-cutter. I've never had the confidence/skill to use the former in matches. Perhaps, it boils down to an individual's action and wrist position. Whatever the reason may be, most other club or age level fast bowlers I know seem to find bowling the leg-cutter very difficult as well.

If an intended outswinger hits the seam and moves away appreciably, I give the batsmen a look as if I meant to leg-cut the ball, but the truth is I am often just as surprised as he is!

 

[smash84]

agree regarding bowling the leg cutter. It also takes away significant pace off the ball compared to the off cutter. At least that was my experience. Found it terribly difficult to bowl

 

[benchmark00]

Benchy must be high. 3 top quality posts in a row without the usual crap. The world is coming to an end

Benchy can I have some of the stuff you have been sm00king.

Nah ****s.


Was actually drunk ftr.

 

[Outswinger@Pace]

agree regarding bowling the leg cutter. It also takes away significant pace off the ball compared to the off cutter. At least that was my experience. Found it terribly difficult to bowl

How many fingers were you using to impart that cutting action?

It also happens with the off-cutter, you know. I normally just let my middle finger run down the onside facing rough hemisphere of the ball. That delivery is about 3/4th the speed of my usual seam-up ball.

As a 'slower' off-cutter, I occasionally run two fingers - middle and ring - down the rough side. Also holding back the ball deeper in the palm of my hand. It's a lot slower and does not carry through as well as the 'quicker' off-cutter while spinning pretty much in the same fashion.

 

[smash84]

How many fingers were you using to impart that cutting action?

It also happens with the off-cutter, you know. I normally just let my middle finger run down the onside facing rough hemisphere of the ball. That delivery is about 3/4th the speed of my usual seam-up ball.

As a 'slower' off-cutter, I occasionally run two fingers - middle and ring - down the rough side. Also holding back the ball deeper in the palm of my hand. It's a lot slower and does not carry through as well as the 'quicker' off-cutter while spinning pretty much in the same fashion.

Yeah I also use the middle finger on the on side of the ball to bowl the leg cutter. It gets very awkward to bowl it for me. I reckon it takes about 40% of the the pace of my delivery and comes out more as a slow delivery. If any accuracy is to be maintained of course.

 

[smash84]

Was actually drunk ftr.

I knew something was wrong

 

[tooextracool]

It isn't possible to swing the ball both ways in the same delivery imo. What may give that impression is basically the the angle created by the bowler, for example; A right arm bowler coming around the wicket would angle it into the left hander, but if he positioned the seam towards slip, the ball would swing away from the left hander AFTER coming in with the angle.

It's been done by Naved ul-Hasan on the England tour to Pakistan in 2005. A genuine inswinger (to the left hander) turned to a reverse outswinger in the same delivery.

 

[smash84]

It's been done by Naved ul-Hasan on the England tour to Pakistan in 2005. A genuine inswinger (to the left hander) turned to a reverse outswinger in the same delivery.

itstl......never knew about this one.........

 

[Daemon]

It's been done by Naved ul-Hasan on the England tour to Pakistan in 2005. A genuine inswinger (to the left hander) turned to a reverse outswinger in the same delivery.

Any source? Would be interesting to see if it's possible.

 

[tooextracool]

Would have to look up the highlights, was to Trescothick IIRC.

 

[Top_Cat]

Rana Naved.

 

[Spark]

It's been done by Naved ul-Hasan on the England tour to Pakistan in 2005. A genuine inswinger (to the left hander) turned to a reverse outswinger in the same delivery.

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is the only way to do it. Bowl a conventional swinger than then reverses.

 

[TumTum]

Bowl a swinging ball and then hope it seams. It's by chance you'll get it to seam, but if you keep an upright seam and bowl consistently in the right areas you'll improve your chances. Steyn and Asif are best examples.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Could someone post a YouTube link for this magical Rana delivery

 

[smash84]

Rana Naved.

ugh