weldone
Hall of Fame Member
...another reason why I'm not the biggest fan of Wisden...
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The better ODI bowler Brett Lee or Waqar Younis
- Thread starter smash84
- Start date
salman85
International Debutant
Overall,Lee has had the slightly better ODI record,but if it comes down to pure impact on song,then very VERY few bowlers can hold a candle to Waqar,in either form of the game.
Kind of like the Shoaib Akhtar and Brett Lee comparison.Whereas Lee would get marks for consistency over Shoaib,the latter was probably the most initimdating fast bowler in the world in the last 20 years when on song.The way he rattled Australia in that one Test Match was nothing short of legendary.
Kind of like the Shoaib Akhtar and Brett Lee comparison.Whereas Lee would get marks for consistency over Shoaib,the latter was probably the most initimdating fast bowler in the world in the last 20 years when on song.The way he rattled Australia in that one Test Match was nothing short of legendary.
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salman85
International Debutant
I wouldn't say Waqar went downhill..True,he wasn't as irresistible as he was at his peak,but he was still a top drawer bowler till the late 1990s.His lack of pace during that era seems to give an image of massive decline in quality,which certainly wasn't true.I remember he had developed a killer slower ball during that period and had some fantastic performances in Sharjah.
smash84
The Tiger King
Outswinger@Pace
International 12th Man
Do I see some Waqar bashing going on here? 
Let's put a few ghosts to sleep, shall we?
Waqar was never a trundler and particularly effective in ODIs even in the 99-03 period you mention. When a lightning fast bowler loses pace, he may look less threatening, but that certainly did not compromise his effectiveness much. Not the case with Donald or Roberts though, but Waqar managed to hold his own even when he lost his great pace.
After 1998 (his third serious injury), Waqar was a 135-140 kmph bowler (fast-medium, in my books) and exhibited superb control with the old and new ball. His outswing, particularly with the new white ball, was actually one of the best in that period. He had added a very good slow off-cutter to his repertoire and that alongwith his reverse swing and bowling intelligence made him a fine bowler for any stage of the game. Salman85 is right.
Another thing that struck me about Waqar was that he became very crafty in using the conditions. He relied on conventional swing and hitting the seam (thereby extracting extra bounce) in England and on cutting and reversing the ball in Sharjah and elsewhere. It was also noticeable that he made an effort to bowl a yard quicker on dry, flat tracks to make that reverse swinging fuller length ball more potent.
His back to back five-wicket-hauls in the Natwest series, 2001, his 5-fer against India, Sharjah 2000 and his 5-fer in Morocco, 2002 are some great spells that I can cite off the top of my head. Check out the videos and see how the man became a complete ODI bowler with destructive abilities in the latter part of his career.
Let's put a few ghosts to sleep, shall we?I sometimes feel that Waqar's unmatched peak was the greatest 'curse' of his career. Anything he did after that seemed inadequate because he had set the bar so unbelievably high.
Waqar was never a trundler and particularly effective in ODIs even in the 99-03 period you mention. When a lightning fast bowler loses pace, he may look less threatening, but that certainly did not compromise his effectiveness much. Not the case with Donald or Roberts though, but Waqar managed to hold his own even when he lost his great pace.
After 1998 (his third serious injury), Waqar was a 135-140 kmph bowler (fast-medium, in my books) and exhibited superb control with the old and new ball. His outswing, particularly with the new white ball, was actually one of the best in that period. He had added a very good slow off-cutter to his repertoire and that alongwith his reverse swing and bowling intelligence made him a fine bowler for any stage of the game. Salman85 is right.
Another thing that struck me about Waqar was that he became very crafty in using the conditions. He relied on conventional swing and hitting the seam (thereby extracting extra bounce) in England and on cutting and reversing the ball in Sharjah and elsewhere. It was also noticeable that he made an effort to bowl a yard quicker on dry, flat tracks to make that reverse swinging fuller length ball more potent.
His back to back five-wicket-hauls in the Natwest series, 2001, his 5-fer against India, Sharjah 2000 and his 5-fer in Morocco, 2002 are some great spells that I can cite off the top of my head. Check out the videos and see how the man became a complete ODI bowler with destructive abilities in the latter part of his career.
Outswinger@Pace
International 12th Man
As for the poll, Smalishah would know exactly what my vote would have been! 
I mean Lee was a terrific ODI bowler. After McGrath, possibly the best from Australia. Nathan Bracken is a very good ODI bowler too, who I felt never quite got his due. But come on, Waqar is Waqar!
I mean Lee was a terrific ODI bowler. After McGrath, possibly the best from Australia. Nathan Bracken is a very good ODI bowler too, who I felt never quite got his due. But come on, Waqar is Waqar!
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smash84
The Tiger King
Some very good points there OSPDo I see some Waqar bashing going on here?
I sometimes feel that Waqar's unmatched peak was the greatest 'curse' of his career. Anything he did after that seemed inadequate because he had set the bar so unbelievably high.
Waqar was never a trundler and particularly effective in ODIs even in the 99-03 period you mention. When a lightning fast bowler loses pace, he may look less threatening, but that certainly did not compromise his effectiveness much. Not the case with Donald or Roberts though, but Waqar managed to hold his own even when he lost his great pace.
After 1998 (his third serious injury), Waqar was a 135-140 kmph bowler (fast-medium, in my books) and exhibited superb control with the old and new ball. His outswing, particularly with the new white ball, was actually one of the best in that period. He had added a very good slow off-cutter to his repertoire and that alongwith his reverse swing and bowling intelligence made him a fine bowler for any stage of the game. Salman85 is right.
Another thing that struck me about Waqar was that he became very crafty in using the conditions. He relied on conventional swing and hitting the seam (thereby extracting extra bounce) in England and on cutting and reversing the ball in Sharjah and elsewhere. It was also noticeable that he made an effort to bowl a yard quicker on dry, flat tracks to make that reverse swinging fuller length ball more potent.
His back to back five-wicket-hauls in the Natwest series, 2001, his 5-fer against India, Sharjah 2000 and his 5-fer in Morocco, 2002 are some great spells that I can cite off the top of my head. Check out the videos and see how the man became a complete ODI bowler with destructive abilities in the latter part of his career.
Agent Nationaux
International Coach
Didn't know you were into Waqar's banana balls.
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Would nom them voraciously, tbh.Didn't know you were into Waqar's banana balls.
Such a MAP bowler. When everyone else was trying to rip heads off, he was one quick who was constantly throwing them up there. Backed himself to beat guys on the front-foot which bowlers generally only do after they've pushed a guy back first. For me, Wasim was metrosexual swing bowling whereas Waqar was all manly and corner barbershop.
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smash84
The Tiger King
weldone
Hall of Fame Member
Ah! Can't belive I missed Shaun Pollock there. He should definitely be in the top 10, Lee will just miss out.
All of Lee, Warne, Waqar, Kapil will be close to top 10; but I can't find a place for anyone of them because top 10 has only 10 places!
Back to the thread question, I shall put Lee just ahead of Waqar as an ODI bowler (although it's needless to say that Waqar was miles ahead of Lee as a test bowler).
smash84
The Tiger King
But the metrosexual swing definitely the better one in ODIs