India's opening pair

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sehwag and Chopra for me

A defensive batsman and an aggresive batsman could compliment each other well.. It works with Langer and Hayden, and it worked with Kirsten and Gibbs

Langer has been batting aggressively for some time now. Ever since the Ashes in England he's been pretty attacking.

 

[anzac]

I don't know enough about India's opening options to cast a vote.

All I can say is that IMO in Test cricket the primary function of the openers is to see off the new ball attack and to set up the innings for the middle order. Run rates IMO are of a secondary importance until such time as the first objective is achieved, unlike ODIs where you want to take advantage of the fielding restrictions.

Some teams have players who can do both, and many have opening combinations of 1 stroke player and 1 more defensive player. I have no preference so long as the job gets done.

Chopra looks like he has got some idea re leaving the short stuff, but OZ pitches will be a different story where the ball will hurry on to him & at greater pace than he has faced to date.

My criticism of Sehwag is his lack of footwork and habit of hanging out the washing outside off early in his innings. If he can restrain himself & improve his technique then he could become a viable opton. Until then IMO he is probably cast in the role so he can get into the side, but will always be vulnerable early on - once he gets set he is a different proposition as we have seen.

It is a question as to whether India can find a partner who will be able to shoulder a good deal of the responsibility to get the job done in the early overs and shield Sehwag from having to face too much of the bowling.

 

[iamdavid]

Sehwag is in a bit of a tricky situation , I beleive he is one of the best 6 batsman in India & therefore his selection in the side is justafiable to me , however I dont beleive him to be a test standard opener.
Just dosent have the technique or the patience , of course he will make the odd big score playing on the subcontinent , really I only saw Tuffey swing the ball for the first 5 overs or so & Butler not at all so he really wasnt under that much pressure & I dont doubt his phenomenal ability against spin , it will just be interesting to see him play against Australia at the MCG , by then McGrath , Lee & Gillespie will all be fit again & I dont think Sehwag has what it takes.

 

[Salamuddin]

sehwag's foreign hundreds

well actually richard, sehwag has another ton outside india.

That was a ton at Bloemfontein in 2001 (his debut test)

 

[lord_of_darkness]

IMO

For Tests..

if india wants a more reliable start Ramesh and Chopra would be the ideal Pair... As for Sehwag his position can easily be at number 3... He is still getting a chance to face the ball early on and he still can play a strong Attacking Role..
Then Tendulkar can play at 4.. we wouldnt like to see The Man at anywhere else below as it affects his batting.. he likes to get into things early aswell so 4 would be a nice spot for him..
Laxman/Ganguly based on form.. i would choose either to fill up number 5.. both are good players on their day.. and ganguly really hasnt impressed me to keep his place fully in the team and neither has laxman so given the option you can replace either with the other one and it helps the depth .. both are good strokemakers and guide the indian team on scoring well..
6 Would be for Rahul Dravid.. he is an awesome batsmen to watch.. and if things crumble down for india he can easily stable the innings at 6.. Not sent it too early and not too late.. so he can try and stabilize things.. at 6...
I wouldnt want to be adding even more pressure on him but If he can keep or improve his keeping.. he can bat at 6 further providing depth for the Indian teams batting meaning both laxman and ganguly can play.. which will be a huge batting lineup for India...
But hes having heaps of pressure already..doubt if a lot more pressure needs to be added
well at 7 i would have N.mongia as keeper he is a real good keeper and quite handy with the bat aswell.. i hope he gets a recall but that seems dim..But apart from that i dont know much about other keepers and i dont favour P.Patel yet
8 Harbajan Singh
9 Kumble/Pace Bowler ( Salvi / Balaji / Srinath )
or India could bring in an Allrounder ( Depends on the pitch really and situation ) either Bangar or Agarkar (i really dont wanna see him here though.. but if he can be consistent .. then god be with him) in as a replacement meaning depth in the batting and help for bowling.. Meaning Bangar can bat as early as 7/8 same goes for agarkar..
10 Khan
11 Nehra


That would in my opinion be a complete lineup for india

 

[Richard]

Re: sehwag's foreign hundreds

well actually richard, sehwag has another ton outside india.

That was a ton at Bloemfontein in 2001 (his debut test)

Yes, another very fine innings indeed, I watched just about every ball of it. India's innings was in ruins on an excellent batting pitch, then Tendulkar (155), Sehwag and Dasgupta (his debut, too) rebuilt the innings. South Africa still replied with something even bigger and won the match, but a scintillating innings.
However, it was at six, and me and the fellow I was talking to were talking about opening.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

As for Sehwag his position can easily be at number 3... He is still getting a chance to face the ball early on and he still can play a strong Attacking Role..
Then Tendulkar can play at 4.. we wouldnt like to see The Man at anywhere else below as it affects his batting.. he likes to get into things early aswell so 4 would be a nice spot for him..

I disagree. I think Dravid plays an essential role at 3 because he is solid while others play shots around him. I think Dravid has the #3 position reserved, as does Tendulkar at #4. If Sehwag is to bat down the order, he should bat at #6 in a Gilchristesque manner.

 

[V Reddy]

How many of you think that Bangar was unlucky? I certainly think so. Although it was boring to watch him bat, he did the job he was asked of. If he made 20 runs then you were sure that he batted till lunch . India's main problem overseas has always been that it loses 3 or more before lunch. I read rumours in a local newspaper that Ganguly and Wright wanted to have Bangar in the team but Kirmani ( Chief Selector) disagreed with them and that he advocated specialists. I think Sehwag opening is a better option that Sehwag being dropped. I also hope Dasgupta is selected as the second keeper to Aus as he can open too when needed.

 

[marc71178]

The giveaway fact in England is that there are so few batsmen averaging over 40 season-in-season-out, yet neither are there bowlers averaging under 27. The odd one, yes,

(At Start of 2003 Season)

Saggers
Dean
Bicknell
Hutchinson
Caddick
Kirtley
Smith
Hoggard
Hamilton
Sidebottom
Cork
Morris
Wells
Gough
Johnson
Lewry
Kabir Ali
Silverwood

That's more than the odd one!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

How many of you think that Bangar was unlucky? I certainly think so. Although it was boring to watch him bat, he did the job he was asked of. If he made 20 runs then you were sure that he batted till lunch . India's main problem overseas has always been that it loses 3 or more before lunch. I read rumours in a local newspaper that Ganguly and Wright wanted to have Bangar in the team but Kirmani ( Chief Selector) disagreed with them and that he advocated specialists. I think Sehwag opening is a better option that Sehwag being dropped. I also hope Dasgupta is selected as the second keeper to Aus as he can open too when needed.

Interestingly Bangar struggled abroad and got runs on the flat beds of India. That doesn't inspire me to pick him for an overseas tour.

Abroad: 135 runs @ 15.00 ; HS-68 (9 inns)
Abroad (- NZ tour): 114 @ 22.85 (5 inns)
Home: 335 runs @ 47.85; 2 fifties; 1 hundred (9 inns)

Those stats don't tend to support your point.

 

[Richard]

(At Start of 2003 Season)
(List)
That's more than the odd one!

Yes, that's more than the odd one, but how many of these averaged well for the last 2 seasons? Let alone averaged under 26 and gone at less than 3-an-over?
Sidebottom and Hutchison, while decent bowlers in tandem with each-other on the green green grass (and cracked, uneven, slow surfaces) of home, were both unwise to leave as few other surfaces will champion them.
Silverwood and Lewry were a little disappointing this season and terribly disappointing last. Hamilton has hardly played the last 2 seasons. Bicknell's last 2 seasons have been his worst for some time. Kabir Ali has always taken wickets but also usually been expensive. Kirtley likewise though not quite as bad. Hoggard was atrocious last season. John Morris retired after 2001. Gough played 2 games last season. Vince Wells is a strange case, and it baffles me why no-one has ever seemingly even remontely considered him for Test-cricket.
Cork and Caddick were the best (unsurprising, given that they're the best two bowlers in the country) but even they were summed-up by their not-quite-consistency. Both suffered injury problems last season. And both have disappointing Test records.
Smith has been good since 2001 and deserved his call-up. Unfortunately, he didn't make the most of it. Saggers, meanwhile, has taken about 300 wickets in the last 4 seasons. Even he has never been quite economical enough.
You get the picture? Plenty are good some seasons, disappointing others and virtually no-one suggests international calibre (ie averaging at least 45 for batsmen, less than 25 and going at less than 2.7-an-over for bowlers, for 2 or 3 seasons in a row).
Unless you set high standards you're not going to be succesful. And don't tell me those standards are unrealistic, South Africans, Australians and even West Indians manage it all the time.

 

[marc71178]

That's Alex Morris.

You've now changed your tune - you said how many average under 27, now you want economy and other things.

Sorry, but if they average low and economy is high, then strike rate is low, so it's a trade off!

Saggers has been <27 for last 6 seasons
Dean did it 5 years of last 6.
Bicknell 5 out of 6
Caddick 4 out of 6 with a 27.35 as one of the others
Kirtley the last 5 years
Hoggard 4 of 6
Smith 4 of 6

So I guess there's a lot that do it year in year out (I stopped looking at this point)

 

[Richard]

That's Alex Morris.

You've now changed your tune - you said how many average under 27, now you want economy and other things.

Sorry, but if they average low and economy is high, then strike rate is low, so it's a trade off!

Saggers has been <27 for last 6 seasons
Dean did it 5 years of last 6.
Bicknell 5 out of 6
Caddick 4 out of 6 with a 27.35 as one of the others
Kirtley the last 5 years
Hoggard 4 of 6
Smith 4 of 6

So I guess there's a lot that do it year in year out (I stopped looking at this point)

For me, economy-rate and average are what I look at first. Strike-rate is the least important, but that's purely opinion and it's impossible to prove any of the 3 are most important in FC-cricket.
Alex Morris, I believe, has retired - certainly he has been released from Hants. Though somewhat inexplicably. He has hardly played the last 2 seasons.
Yes, there are a few bowlers who average under 27 most of the time, but very few who have done it and gone at less than 2.9-an-over for the last 2 seasons.
As the most recent is the most relevant, that is my point.
The situation is getting worse.

 

[Tim]

Those stats on Bangar pretty much back up my point in another thread where I said Indian batsmen get a 40+ average straight away batting on pitches in India.

Outside of India its a different story & a fairly alarming one at that too. Obviously Dravid & Tendulkar are the exceptions of course.

 

[marc71178]

It's all very well taking wickets at low Economy Rate, Richard, but if the Strike Rate is poor for all bowlers then a team doesn't have time to force a result!

 

[Richard]

It's all very well taking wickets at low Economy Rate, Richard, but if the Strike Rate is poor for all bowlers then a team doesn't have time to force a result!

All First-Class games where the result is of relevance last 4 days now - that is more than enough time for 200ao off 100 overs twice to lose you the match. The other side still has over 200 overs (assuming rain-free games) in which to score their runs.
Anyway, of more importance than the results of domestic matches are the production of international calibre players - nowhere in the cricketing World, except possibly Bangladesh (which has for the most part been so poor as to be regarded as external), do domestic clubs finance themselves. Most receive some help from their Cricket Boards (England, South Africa, Zimbabwe and West Indies depend almost exclusively upon their CBs to stay alive), and hence if they don't produce international calibre players the CB's income dries-up, so some of them go bankrupt.
Simple as. That is why the extraordinarily poor economy-rates in domestic cricket are so alarming. If batsmen don't learn discretion and bowlers line-and-length, England will never be much of a Test team.

 

[Craig]

Digging this up:

What do people think of Sehwag and Yuvraj opening?

 

[Jnr.]

I prefer Sehwag/Chopra over Sehwag/Yuvraj.

 

[deeps]

deep dasgupta has shown he can do the job opening...i dont know why he was dropped in the first place...it's obvious india are trying to breed patel into the opener job as well...i believe that for him to succeed at international level,he has to prove his batting AND keeping at domestic level first, or he won't be around for long...till then dasgupta should be the keeper and opening batsman with chopra

1) Chopra
2)Dasgupta
3) Dravid
4)VVS LAxman
5)Sachin Tendlukar
6)V.Sewhag
7) gangluy
4 5 and 6 could swap amongst each other

 

[Richard]

Digging this up:

What do people think of Sehwag and Yuvraj opening?

Bad idea.
Neither are opening-batsmen.