Who is the better Captain? Strauss or Dhoni?

[vcs]

no words about Strauss yet who himself is a decent captain....

btw I do think that our analysis of Dhoni's test captaincy is being tainted by his ODI and T20 record

Yeah limited overs captaincy is an entirely different kettle of fish to Tests. There you can get away with being pretty formulaic, and it suits someone of Dhoni's conservative nature very well. He has had a very good start to his Test captaincy as well, but still has a fair bit to prove there. If you look at Ponting, he had a great start to his Test captaincy, but the results fell away when the big guns retired, however he always got great ODI results irrespective of the team he had.

 

[weeman27bob]

not lost a test series. won world championships in two formats of the game. the indian team became number 1 in tests under him.

it's all about results and so dhoni walks this one overall. and by a bit in tests.

Has Strauss lost any series?

 

[hang on]

think he lost his first series as captain. in the west indies.

 

[ankitj]

It is nearly impossible to compare the two because the strengths of India and England are very different, and it is waaay to early to arrive at a conclusion.

Ganguly vs. Dhoni would be a more interesting one, I am personally of the opinion that people overrate Ganguly's captaincy a bit and take for granted what Dhoni has achieved so far.

"Taking for granted" is surprisingly a phenomenon seen very often in ways people assess players. You'd think it shouldn't happen when stats lay themselves bare in the internet age, but it still happens.

 

[smash84]

haha Ankit, I sometimes wonder whether you over rely on stats

 

[marc71178]

Has Strauss lost any series?

Not since he was appointed, no.

 

[Uppercut]

That's nonsense. Neither has covered themselves in glory and both have had success.

If Dhoni hasn't covered himself in glory then who has? His record as a captain across all three formats is just phenomenal.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

We'll find out over the next 6 weeks won't we.

 

[Z-Man]

Strauss has been pretty good as he has gelled the English team nicely with Flower. Calm/Cool and strategically good too.

Dhoni is the charm behind India's success. He is good at handling superstars in his team which is a difficult job to do. Pretty similar to Riki Ponting, he had a very nice team and handled it pretty good.
The real Captaincy test will be when Dravid/Tendulkar etc retire and youngsters take their place.


Dhoni just edges it for me though.

 

[Howe_zat]

If Dhoni hasn't covered himself in glory then who has? His record as a captain across all three formats is just phenomenal.

Sorry, that was badly worded. What I meant is that they've both received fair criticism.

 

[Uppercut]

Ganguly vs. Dhoni would be a more interesting one, I am personally of the opinion that people overrate Ganguly's captaincy a bit and take for granted what Dhoni has achieved so far.

I agree. It's hard to measure how much of an impact a captain is having, but in the case of Dhoni:

• In India's rise over the past few years, the T20 side noticeably improved first, then the ODI side, then the test side, in the order that Dhoni took over.
• When Kumble was captain, India were notorious for playing much better in the field when he was out injured- first when Dhoni levelled a home series against South Africa when they had gone 1-0 down under Kumble, then at home to Australia when India won comfortably in the two tests in which Dhoni was captain and drew the other two.
• In the first test of that series, which Australia dominated, Dhoni took over the captaincy from Kumble for an hour while Kumble received treatment. India instantly began to perform much, much better, and this was pointed out by several Australian posters in the tour thread at the time.
• He's owned everyone with Chennai in the IPL- whether you think that matters or not, he's had significant input in a prestigious tournament captaining a side other than India
• The players at his disposal aren't notably better than those that India have had previously, and looking at their XI- particularly their attack, over which Dhoni can have the most effect- I think they've overachieved under Dhoni's captaincy.

The only criticism you can have of Dhoni is when he makes a tactical decision that you disagree with. In those cases, you might be right about it, or Dhoni might be right, we really have no way of knowing at all. What's beyond doubt is that India are much, much better than they've ever been before, and there's quite a lot of evidence to suggest that it's all Dhoni's fault.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

I like Strauss because of his attitude and professionalism. He handles situations very well. For example the Ashes Test series was thoroughly planned out by him and Flower. I also applaud him for the way he handled the Ijaz Butt disaster. He has it in him to lead England to a number 1 Test spot.

The only negative criticism I have of him is that he can be somewhat of a defensive captain (but who isn't these days).

 

[hang on]

Not since he was appointed, no.

the series in the windies. in 2009. surely not that traumatic that the memory has been repressed!

 

[vcs]

I agree. It's hard to measure how much of an impact a captain is having, but in the case of Dhoni:

• In India's rise over the past few years, the T20 side noticeably improved first, then the ODI side, then the test side, in the order that Dhoni took over.
• When Kumble was captain, India were notorious for playing much better in the field when he was out injured- first when Dhoni levelled a home series against South Africa when they had gone 1-0 down under Kumble, then at home to Australia when India won comfortably in the two tests in which Dhoni was captain and drew the other two.
• In the first test of that series, which Australia dominated, Dhoni took over the captaincy from Kumble for an hour while Kumble received treatment. India instantly began to perform much, much better, and this was pointed out by several Australian posters in the tour thread at the time.
• He's owned everyone with Chennai in the IPL- whether you think that matters or not, he's had significant input in a prestigious tournament captaining a side other than India
• The players at his disposal aren't notably better than those that India have had previously, and looking at their XI- particularly their attack, over which Dhoni can have the most effect- I think they've overachieved under Dhoni's captaincy.

The only criticism you can have of Dhoni is when he makes a tactical decision that you disagree with. In those cases, you might be right about it, or Dhoni might be right, we really have no way of knowing at all. What's beyond doubt is that India are much, much better than they've ever been before, and there's quite a lot of evidence to suggest that it's all Dhoni's fault.

Yep, agree with all of that. The point about how India scraped a series draw against SA and won the Tests against Australia under him is pretty illustrative of the fact that India were by no means a consistently winning team in Tests when he took over. They definitely stepped up a level under him. Also, a captain that can win a Test to tie a series in SL with an attack of Ishant, Mithun, Mishra and Ojha has got to have something about him. The only disappointing thing is that his Test batting has gotten worse over that period.

 

[ankitj]

Dhoni lacks patience in tests as a batsman, I think. It's not so much about the ability, which I concede is not prodigious. He can't seem to plan a test innings the way he plans an ODI innings, calculating when to knock around singles and when to smash. Basically the whole pacing an innings and approaching towards a target (while chasing or setting) is a game that gets him very interested and involved. Tests are too long to keep him interested in staying in the middle.

 

[vcs]

Also, he's great at pushing the singles, and running twos (probably the best runner between the wickets I've ever seen) to spread fields in the middle overs in ODIs, and this is not a skill that particularly comes in handy in Tests.

 

[smash84]

Dhoni lacks patience in tests as a batsman, I think. It's not so much about the ability, which I concede is not prodigious. He can't seem to plan a test innings the way he plans an ODI innings, calculating when to knock around singles and when to smash. Basically the whole pacing an innings and approaching towards a target (while chasing or setting) is a game that gets him very interested and involved. Tests are too long to keep him interested in staying in the middle.

I feel that Dhoni gets really uncomfortable with the bouncer which allows the fielding team to unsettle him. Not too sure though but it is a feeling that I get.

Also, he's great at pushing the singles, and running twos (probably the best runner between the wickets I've ever seen) to spread fields in the middle overs in ODIs, and this is not a skill that particularly comes in handy in Tests.

He is very good at getting ones and 2s in ODIs. Reminds you a bit of Javed Miandad.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Instinctively they're both defensive captains. Dhoni tends to take the catchers out sooner, but that's possibly a product of having the weaker bowling hand to play. When partnerships develop his instinct is to hang in there and dry the runs up.

This isn't necessarily a criticism of him, Glenn McGrath was primarily a defensive bowler after all.

 

[G.I.Joe]

The only disappointing thing is that his Test batting has gotten worse over that period.

You're letting the WI series cloud your assessment. Dhoni averages far more as captain than before.

 

[marc71178]

the series in the windies. in 2009. surely not that traumatic that the memory has been repressed!

Was before he was given the job full time.