• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Pankaj Singh

Does Pankaj Singh deserve to play for India currently??


  • Total voters
    18

shankar

International Debutant
Haven't seen him play but heard today that he has gained pace this season, after working with Meyrick Pringle.

Is bowling 135 to 140 Km consistently. If true, then selectors really must his face or something.
Saw highlights of one of his spells this season on Willowtv's channel. He looked quite good. Would be ideal for the tour to SA.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
That is very much an India-ready bowler. Tall, muscular, decently fast, very accurate and also capable of moving the ball well. Easily an immediate replacement for Ishant Sharma, and should be playing ahead of the likes of Ashok Dinda. He'd do well once Umesh Yadav returns and partners him, with Bhuv Kumar first-change. Fits in nicely. There's not much you can debate against that video, as it's not a stat sheet or a training recording.
 

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
Ignored for Fast bowlers camp which had 11 seamers and 7 spinners. Ignored for Rest of India team to play Mumbai in Irani trophy. Ignored for India A team to play Australia. Ignored for Boards president 11 to play Australia.

Bloody hell. He surely has pissed someone off in the BCCI. Must have been close to Lalit Modi or something. Ludicrous.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Must've been banging Sreenivasan's daughter on the sly (if he has one). How in hell does that guy not get a game when you have utter chuts like Dinda and Jadeja waltzing into the national team?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
With the Indian pace stocks in serious trouble, their newfound spearhead found wanting, and Pankaj Singh still doing a Whatmore and taking plenty of wickets (#3 in Ranji so far) yet again, time the selectors take notice and put aside their bias against Lalit Modi's erstwhile bastion- hang on, they have their own men in charge there, so why the hitch?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Pankaj Singh's Ranji season has finished, as Rajasthan could not make the knockouts. At least they're in the respectable group B, and not relegated to the mediocre (ask Rishi Dhawan, who can't make the national side despite being the top all-rounder) Group C. In eight games, he's taken 39 wickets, with a strike rate under 50 and three fives. Still not good enough for India?

He's become desperate. He even tried to walk towards Roger Binny, who was watching the game, to find out why he isn't getting an India call-up. In this interview, he said that he feels he'll miss out because of his age. This is a sad conclusion, for we will now see age, not performance, being a criterion for national selection. It will also encourage a lot of age cheating. Another point he's made is that he's supposed to have missed out because of lack of pace- but points out that nobody except Umesh Yadav has genuine pace.

He's been very, very unlucky, for missing out despite excellent domestic performances. We're seeing caps given to Ishant Sharma, who was never ready for the big stage, and look at what's happened now. We're seeing a tiny, slow, underpowered lad from UP promoted as India's pace hope, but he's got no hope now. We see a one-season wonder from Haryana pushed into a frontline role, and pushed out by formidable batting on a not-so-helpful pitch. We're seeing another domestic veteran from Karnataka picked, only to fail, and we blame the system, but he's at least seven inches shorter. We're seeing a revolving door of Indian pacers, when the door should have been welded shut with Pankaj Singh opening the bowling in Tests and ODIs. And then we wonder why India struggle with their pace bowlers.
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
Pankaj Singh's Ranji season has finished, as Rajasthan could not make the knockouts. At least they're in the respectable group B, and not relegated to the mediocre (ask Rishi Dhawan, who can't make the national side despite being the top all-rounder) Group C. In eight games, he's taken 39 wickets, with a strike rate under 50 and three fives. Still not good enough for India?

He's become desperate. He even tried to walk towards Roger Binny, who was watching the game, to find out why he isn't getting an India call-up. In this interview, he said that he feels he'll miss out because of his age. This is a sad conclusion, for we will now see age, not performance, being a criterion for national selection. It will also encourage a lot of age cheating. Another point he's made is that he's supposed to have missed out because of lack of pace- but points out that nobody except Umesh Yadav has genuine pace.

He's been very, very unlucky, for missing out despite excellent domestic performances. We're seeing caps given to Ishant Sharma, who was never ready for the big stage, and look at what's happened now. We're seeing a tiny, slow, underpowered lad from UP promoted as India's pace hope, but he's got no hope now. We see a one-season wonder from Haryana pushed into a frontline role, and pushed out by formidable batting on a not-so-helpful pitch. We're seeing another domestic veteran from Karnataka picked, only to fail, and we blame the system, but he's at least seven inches shorter. We're seeing a revolving door of Indian pacers, when the door should have been welded shut with Pankaj Singh opening the bowling in Tests and ODIs. And then we wonder why India struggle with their pace bowlers.
The only problem I feel(I might be wrong) Pankaj Singh has is that he neither swings it a lot, nor does he hit the deck hard, just tries to bowl a good line and length and let the pitch do the rest(and he is not completely outstanding at that aswell). Such bowlers are useful, provided they hit the deck hard or get some seam movement, but Pankaj Singh doesn't seem to do that. Doesn't look like he can do well in other conditions where he might have to either make use of the extra bounce or the amount of swing on offer. But having said that, we anyways haven't had a lot of versatile bowlers of late who have done well everywhere(anywhere:D). In fact, Vinay Kumar is someone who bowls just like him but isn't as good comparatively.

Regardless of what shortcomings there may be in his bowling, he certainly deserves a few opportunities or atleast he should be told about what is expected from him since he is willing to work hard and get it right.
 
Last edited:

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
The only problem I feel(I might be wrong) Pankaj Singh has is that he neither swings it a lot, nor does he hit the deck hard, just tries to bowl a good line and length and let the pitch do the rest...Regardless of what shortcomings there may be in his bowling, he certainly deserves a few opportunities or atleast he should be told about what is expected from him since he is willing to work hard and get it right.
  • "Pankaj doesn't swing"- we've seen plenty of Indian bowlers who can swing- but do nothing else- and are slow- and struggle when things don't go their way. Saviour Bhuvneshwar is the latest example.
  • "Pankaj doesn't hit the deck hard/Vinay bowls like him but isn't as good"- Pankaj is well over six feet in height, and powerfully built. Both Kumars (Vinay/Bucky) are well under six feet, and Shami Ahmed, shorter than Rohit Sharma. Surely that should count for something. He's not as feeble as these two, and can hit the deck a lot harder.
  • "Pankaj just tries to bowl good line and length"- Isn't that what fans would want? We've endured plenty of loose rubbish from Dinda, Ishant, and even want the decently-fast Umesh Yadav dropped because he bowls too many loose ones.
  • "Pankaj is not outstanding"- He's been amongst the top wicket-takers for three seasons in a row. Not enough?
  • "Willing to work hard and get it right"- And he's done just that, with his pace. Not blazing, but decent.
While I do feel he's not the saviour of Indian pace bowling, he's definitely the right choice, and the best choice, right now. Admit it, you (not you in particular) want some serious pace in the Indian attack, but are too scared to persist with Umesh Yadav because of his poor line and length, and the usually accurate Bucky struggles to take wickets, and when things don't work out for him, struggles to survive. Picking Pankaj in the frontline may not be a magic wand, but it is a logical move.
 
Last edited:

indiaholic

International Captain
Isn't he a lot like Abhimanyu Mithun? The bowling strategy i.e? But if domestic records have any relevance then he deserves a spot in the national team.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
What exactly is the selection committee's thinking in keeping up with Ishant and Zaheer after the SA tour? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
What exactly is the selection committee's thinking in keeping up with Ishant and Zaheer after the SA tour? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
We don't have one. These days BCCI just picks a bunch of guys and pays them to keep their mouth shut.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
We don't have one. These days BCCI just picks a bunch of guys and pays them to keep their mouth shut.
Maybe, but I doubt if the selection committee is still overruled by Dhoni, who has a tendency to back his preferred players for long periods.

As for Pankaj, I feel the state he represents, Rajasthan, has one of the BCCI's least favoured associations. They had to fight tooth and nail to get rid of Lalit Modi, who's still influential in Rajasthan, but seem to have no success in ruling that place. That state missed a Hazare Trophy because of a clash between a pro-Modi faction of RCA and one that was pro-BCCI.
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
Maybe, but I doubt if the selection committee is still overruled by Dhoni, who has a tendency to back his preferred players for long periods.
The selection committee is still overruled by Dhoni, who has a tendency to back his preferred players forEVER.
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
  • "Pankaj doesn't swing"- we've seen plenty of Indian bowlers who can swing- but do nothing else- and are slow- and struggle when things don't go their way. Saviour Bhuvneshwar is the latest example.
  • "Pankaj doesn't hit the deck hard/Vinay bowls like him but isn't as good"- Pankaj is well over six feet in height, and powerfully built. Both Kumars (Vinay/Bucky) are well under six feet, and Shami Ahmed, shorter than Rohit Sharma. Surely that should count for something. He's not as feeble as these two, and can hit the deck a lot harder.
  • "Pankaj just tries to bowl good line and length"- Isn't that what fans would want? We've endured plenty of loose rubbish from Dinda, Ishant, and even want the decently-fast Umesh Yadav dropped because he bowls too many loose ones.
  • "Willing to work hard and get it right"- And he's done just that, with his pace. Not blazing, but decent.
While I do feel he's not the saviour of Indian pace bowling, he's definitely the right choice, and the best choice, right now. Admit it, you (not you in particular) want some serious pace in the Indian attack, but are too scared to persist with Umesh Yadav because of his poor line and length, and the usually accurate Bucky struggles to take wickets, and when things don't work out for him, struggles to survive. Picking Pankaj in the frontline may not be a magic wand, but it is a logical move.

You have misunderstood my post. I was just mentioning the possible reasons of him not being selected by the selectors and I gave an example of Vinay Kumar, because he bowls like Pankaj Singh, but quality wise, Pankaj is much better. So if Vinay Kumar is selected, than Pankaj Singh should surely be give a few chances.

But the problems with guys like Vinay Kumar, Pankaj Singh,etc. is that they mold themselves to suit the Indian pitches and the conditions ending up becoming either swing bowlers or line and length bowlers who actually do not hit the deck hard(coz they anyways don't get much in return if they do that) or get any seam movement. Swing bowlers atleast have a chance in some conditions and can be good with the new ball, but the ones who just stick to a normal line and length with no movement have little scope at the international level.

Let me give you an even better example, Ranadeb Bose, a tall, consistent medium pacer from bengal.

Ranadeb Bose | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Despite of being average in his last few games, his stats are very impressive, you would wonder why he didn't get any chances. He also has the record for never bowling a no ball in his entire career further indicating to the amount of control over his run up and action. But if you actually see him bowling, you would doubt if he can pose any threat to international level batsmen. Just releases the ball at a very normal pace, with not much movement and force.

I think what can be done with such guys is that they can be given a few games at the international level or sent to A tours and allowed to prove themselves, since you cannot just keep avoiding them after they perform well season after season. Or atleast the selectors need to send them to NCA and let a good bowling coach make them work on a few things(i mean minor adjustments) for a couple of months and then introduce them at the international level and see if that works. Ignoring the such guys is actually demotivating them.

I m not questioning their talent or commitment, but its rather the poor wickets, the amount of matches played and the SG balls(which assist the bowlers who swing it in the air) being the reason why a lot of bowlers get wasted. There are quite a few bowlers who keep changing their bowling style to be able to pick more wickets in the domestic matches. Some reduce their pace and just look to bowl a normal line and length, some keep getting injured because of playing too many matches and the ones who can control their swing concentrate on swing bowling. This leaves us with a very limited pool of bowlers to choose from and there's also not much variety.

Its tough to actually judge the bowlers from stats alone(especially in our case), the domestic tournaments need a bit of restructuring if we really want to see good quick bowlers coming up. Most of the bowlers are pushed towards the wrong direction.
 
Last edited:

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
What Pankaj Singh and Ishwar Pandey need, and what Ranadeb Bose needed, to get an edge over erratic sprayers like Dinda/Tyagi/Mithun, is a bowling action consultant, and possibly a biomechanist. Their actions can be modified to gain some extra pace, and that is something an expert can help with.

Ranadeb Bose was a classic case of a very good bowler handled poorly by the board. While he was rather slow on release, and also very slow on the field, if he was put through a rigorous fitness training regimen, which is missing in most state boards' plans, he would be a competitive bowler at the top level. Instead, we saw plenty of India caps gifted to Ashok Dinda, who wasn't that much quicker, but consistently bowled a poor line and length. Pankaj, on the other hand, is a lot fitter and more athletic than Bose, and in that interview, and one more earlier, he said that he's bowling in the high 130s often.

You'll notice the fastest bowlers in the world are very good fielders and athletes. Brett Lee was one, so was Shane Bond, then Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel, and now Mitchell Johnson. Even Lasith Malinga, least likely, is very good on the field. Express pace and athleticism are not far apart. The other aspect is physical build and strength. You can't expect someone shorter than Rohit Sharma to be a world-class pace bowler. Most pace bowlers are tall, powerfully-built men. Most of India's choices as frontline pacers, over the years, are short in height, and have achieved little- amongst the successful ones, Kapil Dev was never that short, and three other accomplished Indian pacers- Srinath, Prasad and Zaheer- were over six feet in height.

It's not stats alone, but feedback from commentators, journalists and even selectors, as well as Pankaj's own accounts, that suggest he's got it in him to play for India. It is also up to bowlers like Yadav and Aaron (who publicly claimed there's something wrong with the system) not to get pushed away by the system, but to keep bowling fast. Let the flawed system not be an excuse for not picking India's best pace bowlers.
 

jonbrooks

International Debutant
Another one of those players who has a good FC record but ends up being more of an ODI fixture. Why does that happen so often?
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
What Pankaj Singh and Ishwar Pandey need, and what Ranadeb Bose needed, to get an edge over erratic sprayers like Dinda/Tyagi/Mithun, is a bowling action consultant, and possibly a biomechanist. Their actions can be modified to gain some extra pace, and that is something an expert can help with.
Some minor tweaks can do the trick, but a bowler's natural action works best for him, so I don't think there should be any major changes made in the bowling action.

Ranadeb Bose was a classic case of a very good bowler handled poorly by the board. While he was rather slow on release, and also very slow on the field, if he was put through a rigorous fitness training regimen, which is missing in most state boards' plans, he would be a competitive bowler at the top level. Instead, we saw plenty of India caps gifted to Ashok Dinda, who wasn't that much quicker, but consistently bowled a poor line and length. Pankaj, on the other hand, is a lot fitter and more athletic than Bose, and in that interview, and one more earlier, he said that he's bowling in the high 130s often.
Exactly, in fact a lot of bowlers(and even batsmen) don't even have the basic knowledge of what kind of fitness training that they need to undergo.

You'll notice the fastest bowlers in the world are very good fielders and athletes. Brett Lee was one, so was Shane Bond, then Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel, and now Mitchell Johnson. Even Lasith Malinga, least likely, is very good on the field. Express pace and athleticism are not far apart. The other aspect is physical build and strength. You can't expect someone shorter than Rohit Sharma to be a world-class pace bowler. Most pace bowlers are tall, powerfully-built men. Most of India's choices as frontline pacers, over the years, are short in height, and have achieved little- amongst the successful ones, Kapil Dev was never that short, and three other accomplished Indian pacers- Srinath, Prasad and Zaheer- were over six feet in height.
I agree that fast bowlers need to be good athletes or at least need to have a decent fitness level.

But height is not a huge factor I guess. Maco was not the tallest bowler in his team but he was still the best, same can be said about Steyn. Each bowler has to find a way to get effective according to his strengths and limitations. Praveen Kumar is the best example I can give you, he did well(before getting injuries) despite of being a gentle medium pace bowler and having a very low release point. His test performances so far have been really good.
 
Last edited:

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Another one of those players who has a good FC record but ends up being more of an ODI fixture. Why does that happen so often?
He's a virtually permanent non-fixture in the national team! Ignored yet again. Maybe he should shift base from Rajasthan, whom the BCCI hate with a passion, to Saurashtra, who have their token players getting India caps via the lobby?
karan316 said:
Some minor tweaks can do the trick, but a bowler's natural action works best for him, so I don't think there should be any major changes made in the bowling action.
A realistic target should be set for him. 135k-145k is a decent bracket, since he is trying hard on his own to boost his pace.
karan316 said:
But height is not a huge factor I guess. Maco was not the tallest bowler in his team but he was still the best, same can be said about Steyn. Each bowler has to find a way to get effective according to his strengths and limitations. Praveen Kumar is the best example I can give you, he did well(before getting injuries) despite of being a gentle medium pace bowler and having a very low release point. His test performances so far have been really good.
While those bowlers were not seriously tall, as in 6'5" or 6'7", they were reasonably tall. There's no hope in someone shorter than Rohit Sharma in being a top-flight pace bowler. That's way too short. Already Shami Ahmed was getting carted around for sky-high economy rates in South Africa, and it's been so since his recall in late 2013, although that's a huge upgrade from the lack of wickets in the first half of 2013, and I strongly prefer strike rate for strike bowlers. The examples I have in mind are the likes of Agarkar, Harvinder Singh, Chetan Sharma, Manoj Prabhakar and so many other bowlers who were very short, and very far from world class. The successful examples from India that I mentioned wouldn't be as tall as other successful international pacers, but are a lot taller than this bunch.

The Praveen Kumar story is highly exaggerated- he's had one good Test series, but little outside. He's useless on flat pitches, as his ODI record shows. Bhuvneshwar Kumar is also struggling when it doesn't seam or swing.

One comment is a bit scary from the Cricinfo page- that Pankaj Singh may go the Abhijeet Kale way.
 

karan316

State Vice-Captain
The Praveen Kumar story is highly exaggerated- he's had one good Test series, but little outside. He's useless on flat pitches, as his ODI record shows. Bhuvneshwar Kumar is also struggling when it doesn't seam or swing.
He played 2 test series, 1 in England where he was highly impressive. In West Indies, he showed a lot more promise by performing well on pitches which do not offer a lot for swing bowlers like him. Although he is yet to prove himself, my point is just that bowlers need to find a way to make best use of their strengths and be effective.
 
Last edited:

Top