Inness should have been picked over Bracken

[Top_Cat]

Can't say I disagree with this at all. I was asking the question when Bracken was first picked and considering their respective records, his selection over Inness is even less justified.

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,7566463-23212,00.html

Why isn't Mat in?
By Michael Horan
October 15, 2003

VICTORIAN cricket's senior men are fuming that left-arm fast bowler Mathew Inness has again been ignored by the national selectors.

NSW counterpart Nathan Bracken, who statistically is no match for the Victorian, was called into the Australian squad on Monday to bolster its stocks for the second Test against Zimbabwe this week.

Leg-spinner Stuart MacGill has torn a calf muscle to join NSW teammate Glenn McGrath on the injured list.

Bracken's recall prompted a less than subtle swipe from Victorian coach David Hookes and a despondent reaction from captain Darren Berry.

Inness and Bracken are both 25-year-old left-arm fast bowlers, but it is the Victorian, who cannot get a look in with Australia A, who has the far superior first-class record for his state.

Inness has collected 178 wickets for Victoria at an average of just 24.72, compared to Bracken's 80 at 30.45 for the Blues.

"As I've said many times, when they give out the baggy blue cap in NSW, they give you a baggy green in a brown paper bag as well to save making two presentations," Hookes said.

"I think Matty got very harshly treated when he was overlooked for the Australia A side last year, and I think he'd be a pretty disappointed bloke today."

Berry, Inness's Pura Cup captain, had no intention of buying into selection issues, but stated the obvious on his teammate's behalf.

"He's a great bloke and he works harder than any player I know," Berry said.

"I can't comment on selection and won't - I don't have to. The stats speak for themselves."

The 183cm, 92kg Inness has a personal best of 7-19 and has taken six five-wicket and two 10-wicket hauls in his 50-game career for Victoria. Bracken has taken five wickets in an innings just once in 28 games for NSW.

There is a palpable feeling within Victorian ranks that without a representative on the national selection panel, the influence of Australian captain Steve Waugh and the Queensland-NSW representation on the selection panel works harshly against Victoria.

The selectors are chairman Trevor Hohns (Qld), Allan Border (Qld), Andrew Hilditch (NSW) and David Boon (Tasmania).

Bracken, who was also selected in the Australian squad for the 2001 Ashes tour, was included in the 14-man Australian squad for the second Test against Zimbabwe, starting at the SCG on Friday.

The general consensus among the Victorian players - especially the batsmen - is that Inness is a better bowler, one who swings the ball more, but also one who runs in all day and can get wickets with the old ball.

Herald Sun

 

[Andre]

I agree completely. I've ranted about Bracken many-a-time before, and I could put up with ODI selection.

But Test selection over a clearly superior candidate just baffles me. For mine, Bollinger is the pick of the left armers in NSW.

Go figure.

 

[Top_Cat]

But Test selection over a clearly superior candidate just baffles me. For mine, Bollinger is the pick of the left armers in NSW.

A friend of mine (Pete Thomas) played against him in the ATSIC Chairman's XI vs PM XI match last year and rated Bollinger very highly.

Still, it's just another example of where a player from NSW seems to get the nod in line-ball selection decisions. And yes, I can name some examples so don't even go there, buddy.

 

[Andre]

Still, it's just another example of where a player from NSW seems to get the nod in line-ball selection decisions. And yes, I can name some examples so don't even go there, buddy.

Corey mate, I agree with you 400%!

Simply because I am a New South Welshman, doesn't mean I cannot see the painful truth of favoritism with the selectors.

For mine, Katich isn't even worthy of his place in the squad, but the Bracken selection is the real clanger!

 

[masterblaster]

Simon Katich?

Where is Martin Love? Did he get a look in?
Nathan Bracken?

He is a talented bowler, but compared with Inness and some others I think he isn't up to standard.

Love did very well last season, where is he now?

 

[marc71178]

Simon Katich?

Where is Martin Love? Did he get a look in?

They're searching a direct Lehmann replacement - Love cannot bowl.

 

[Mr. P]

I agree with this more than would seem possible. Bracken should not have a place in this side, simply doesnt deserve it. I would have put Clarke in the team ahead of Katich also, as Clarke can bowl too.

 

[age_master]

Clarke doesn't really bowl much, wheras Katich is rated as steve rixon as the 2nd best spinner in the state. - Katich is really the only option, hes got plenty of first class experience and is a very solid batsman, has batted everywhere fro NSW from opening to numbers 5 and 6. hes also a pretty good bowler, well better than lehmann anyway, probably deserves another shot, he only got one test before falling out of favor. Love will be back, im sure he will have another good season for the bulls and if any batsman gets injured he will be the first in line - but when we are missing McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Macgill, especually at teh SCG, we really need the extra bowling that Katich has.


as for Inness, i really dont quite know what hes done wrong, he is much better in the longer form, one dayers is different but this is not an one day game.

 

[Andre]

Katich is really the only option, hes got plenty of first class experience and is a very solid batsman

Let me think of a Queenslander who could do the job....

Mr. Symonds...

No wait thats too obvious. Andrew S

 

[iamdavid]

Although I rate Doug Bollinger highly I cant beleive Inness was overlooked for him by Australia A last year , they even picked Cleary ahead of him & while both Cleary & Bollinger are a little quicker they get no where near the movement Inness does , nor do their records stack up against his , nor are they as accurate.

Matthew Inness is a real thinking bowler , he uses his head & I think of him as a Victorian version of Chaminda Vaas , when he does eventually get his oppurtunity then he should become one of our mainstays.

There should be a six man selection panel with one from each state.

 

[Andre]

There should be a six man selection panel with one from each state.

No. This would prove nothing short of farcical.

 

[Richard]

Matt Inness has to be one of the unluckiest professional players of recent years. For me, he's the best seamer in Australia, simple as.
Not as accurate as McGrath and Gillespie, but he can move the ball in more ways than them.

 

[marc71178]

To describe him as that strikes me as being a bit OTT there!

 

[Richard]

To describe him as that strikes me as being a bit OTT there!

Who else can move the ball in all conditions? In Australia?
I don't just judge a bowler on his record - I have watched Matthew Inness bowl, alright not as much as I've watched McGrath or Gillespie, but both of them are pretty average in typical Australian conditions, and only get batsmen out because good batsmen fear them and bad batsmen aren't good enough.
Matt Inness, however, can get competant batsmen out through his own skill rather than their incompetance in any conditions.
If the pitch is seaming - he'll seam it. If it's swinging conventionally - he'll swing it. If it's reverse-swinging - he'll swing it. If none of the above are possible, he'll use off-cutters and leg-cutters.
In this way, he's not dissimilar to Shane Harwood his opening partner. The difference is that Harwood's rather wayward, Inness's accuracy is far better.

 

[marc71178]

McGrath is one of the top 2 seamers in the World.

To say Inness is the best seamer in Australia puts him at that level, when he's never played an International.

 

[Richard]

McGrath is one of the top 2 seamers in the World.

To say Inness is the best seamer in Australia puts him at that level, when he's never played an International.

McGrath and Pollock, the top two seamers in The World?
To be a good bowler in all conditions, you need more than accuracy and fear from batsmen!
Just because someone is succesful it doesn't mean they're good. You can't always trust statistics to judge a bowler. You have to ideally watch the wickets he has taken, and if you can't you have to get another's account of it.
On a pitch offering no seam, McGrath doesn't get batsmen out - he just waits for them to get themselves out, and when they do he's conceded so few runs his average is still good. That's not a skill - that's just a distortion.
There was actually a recent-ish period where McGrath was played well (generally, anyway), the winter of 2001\02. Naturally it didn't last all that long.
Don't get me wrong, McGrath on a green or uneven pitch is about as lethal as you can be, but on a dry, grassless pitch - very overrated.

 

[marc71178]

McGrath and Pollock, the top two seamers in The World?

Yes, by far and away the 2 best seamers in World Cricket.

If Inness is such a great bowler, how come he's never played for his country?

 

[Top_Cat]

To be a good bowler in all conditions, you need more than accuracy and fear from batsmen!

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY FEAR HIM? It's ain't his devastating pace. I notice that the guys who actually face him rate him pretty highly. I also notice that none of them have said they only get themselves out against him. Wonder why?

On a pitch offering no seam, McGrath doesn't get batsmen out - he just waits for them to get themselves out, and when they do he's conceded so few runs his average is still good. That's not a skill - that's just a distortion.

Aww, come on man; do you honestly think someone who merely bowls accurately and does nothing else would take 400+ wickets at a strike-rate amongst the best in the game? Give me a break..........seriously, you want to bash someone, bash someone who at least one batsman in the world rates lowly. With McGrath or Pollock, you're talking about guys who are rated highly by historians, commentators and their peers alike. Denying their obvious talent with the ball puts you in as exclusive a club as Gary Larsen's fabled DLDWWS (Didn't Like Dances With Wolves Society).

Brian Lara is one of the greatest batsmen of our generation; ask yourself why Glenn McGrath leapfrogs everyone else, in terms of Lara's opponents, in having the ability to get him out. Just bowling accurately? Lara punishes guys who don't do something with ball. Getting himself out? A guy who scores as heavily and frequently as he does in all sorts of pressure situations doesn't strike me as being short of patience. So what else is there? It couldn't be that Glenn McGrath has the ability to get good (and great) batsmen out with the good deliveries he bowls now, could it? Perish the thought.........

Here's an idea; why don't you go play for a club and just bowl accurately without moving the ball and we'll see how far you get, let alone playing for your county, let alone playing for your country and certainly letting alone being rated amonst the best in the game and taking 400+ wickets Test in an era where conditions have favoured batsmen as a whole. I'm not a betting man but I'd wager that you would not get far.

There was actually a recent-ish period where McGrath was played well (generally, anyway), the winter of 2001\02. Naturally it didn't last all that long.
Don't get me wrong, McGrath on a green or uneven pitch is about as lethal as you can be, but on a dry, grassless pitch - very overrated.

Lets test that theory in some statistics, eh?

Glenn McGrath's record in India:

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

Glenn McGrath's record in NZ:

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

Glenn McGrath's record in Pakistan

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

Glenn McGrath's record in the WI

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

Glenn McGrath's record in Adelaide

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

Glenn McGrath's record in Bellerive

http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/...=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1

You starting to see a pattern yet? I don't know what you've got against McGrath but criticising his ability to move the ball around and get batsmen out is ultimately futile because you've got his record and testimonials from guys who've played against him against you.

The truth is, McGrath does move the ball around quite a bit but it's subtle and not always picked up on the visuals you see on TV. His movement isn't exaggerated but that's because he's not trying for the hooping outswinger or spitting leg-cutter every ball. But having watched him since Test number 1 (and in the nets) it's pretty obvious he doesn't get wickets by merely hitting a line-and-length and doing nothing else. You indirectly diss the skill required in facing him and therefore the overall skill level of batsmen worldwide if you believe that to be the case. And considering all the signs (higher run-rates, higher scores, etc.) point to increased fortunes for batting worldwide, a conclusion like you're making flies in the face of all available evidence.

Alternatively, give me ONE example of a bowler who was successful in Test history by only bowling accurately.

 

[The Argonaut]

Top Cat has summed it up quite brilliantly. Nothing more needs to be said.

The worry I have with Katich being selected is that his style of bowling is exactly the same as Hogg's. They bowl a risky style of bowling and I never thought I'd see 2 Chinamen bowling in a test. Symonds really isn't a good enough spinner to be considered but is an underrated batsman in the four day game. Australia only needs 4 bowlers against Zimbabwe and Love should have been picked.

On the original argument, Inness must have ****ed someone off as he certainly hasn't risen to the level that a bowler of his quality deserves. Bracken has been picked on potential more than anything I think. It won't really matter anyway as he or Inness if selected wouldn't have played and will carry the drinks.

 

[age_master]

The worry I have with Katich being selected is that his style of bowling is exactly the same as Hogg's. They bowl a risky style of bowling and I never thought I'd see 2 Chinamen bowling in a test. Symonds really isn't a good enough spinner to be considered but is an underrated batsman in the four day game. Australia only needs 4 bowlers against Zimbabwe and Love should have been picked.

nah, better to play 5 (or 4 and an all rounder - Katich) just in case of injury, or even strain, nothing more can really be risked for the India games. whatever happens though, australia really want to play the 2 spinners, so lee and Bichel dont have to work as hard, and Katich is the best option i can see. Michael Clarke bowls, and quite well, but he is like lehmann, better bowling in the OD game, he doesn't really turn it that much, Shane Watson cant bowl atm, Cam White is young and inexperienced, spose we could always give Mark Waugh a recall