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England's Future XI

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Chris Harris, a spinner?
For me, there are three types of spinner:
Fingerspinner, orthodox-wristspinner, unorthodox-wristspinner.
Fingerspinners are bowlers who spin the ball with their fingers (whether right-arm or left-arm) and hence it is physically impossible for them to get significant turn to trouble batsmen except on extravagant pitches typical to the subcontinent and West Indies only.
You get fingerspinners like Harbhajan and Saqlain who bowl the old "doosra" which turns the other way, but it still turns no more than an off-break, so these types of bowlers aren't especially good either. (Please note: almost all fingerspinners can bowl an arm-ball; this is different to the "doosra")
Orthodox-wristspinners are the like of MacGill, Warne, Salisbury, Hogg, Mishra, Abdul Qadir and Benaud. The bowlers whose stock-ball is the leg-break-to-like-hander (ie to a right-armer bowling at a right-hander or a left-armer bowling at a left-hander). These types of bowler usually have variations googly and flipper (an off-break-to-like-hander and one that spits up without turning) but not always.
Unorthodox-wristspinners are any other bowler who spins the ball with his wrists but whose stock-ball is not the leg-break-to-like-hander. These have really only started to emerge in the last decade. Some examples: Muralitharan, Adams, Kumble.
Wristspinners, both orthodox and unorthodox, have the distinct advantage over fingerspinners that they will usually turn the ball on all surfaces. Kumble is again an exception.
Since the days of uncovered wickets, fingerspinners have become bowlers who are of no use in England. Some people, however, still live in the past. And still, no Test-class wristspinners are emerging.
Still, before Warne and Murali the last one was Benaud, so maybe we shouldn't be too depressed.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
PY said:
Can't remember if it's been done since the summer but who would be in your top England team for one year into the future?

1. Marcus Trescothick
2. Michael Vaughan*
3. Mark Butcher
4. Ed Smith
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Geraint Jones+
7. Andy Flintoff
8. Simon Jones
9. Gareth Batty (only promising young-ish spinner I can think of)
10. Steve Harmison
11. James Anderson

Discuss
Some of these threads really are amusing!
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
If fact Chris Hinton was quite correct in saying the bowling attack would be Harmison, Flintoff, Hoggard and Anderson. Shame for him the spinner is Ashley.

Richards comments about finger spinners not being effective in England have being spot on this year :p
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Craig said:
When he had Jones and Flintoff around the wrong way raised an eyebrow or two.
The fact was, though, that he HAD Jones in the side.

I think Richard's being particularly foolhardy resurrecting some of these threads,

6643 posts, 500 threads, 3 topics
 

Craig

World Traveller
You don't rate Geriant Jones all that highly Eddie?

It seems the days of being picked soley for your 'keeping (ok Zimbabwe are different case, but that is another story) are over, and it appears Jones has that over Read.

Credit to the guy, he did make a pretty good save off Gough yeasterday, in Gough's first spell when one of the balls went down the legside, and Jones made good dive to his right to prevent it from going for 4 wides (they got one off it, plus the wide) when earlier in the summer he wouldn't of made the save.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Craig said:
You don't rate Geriant Jones all that highly Eddie?
The point I was making was that PY had him in his 'who will be in the side in a year's time?' side - and of course Geraint Jones didn't make his debut until April this year - quite a time after PY suggested his inclusion.

Top spot by PY in my opinion.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Richard said:
It is as simple as this for me: you pick the bowlers who you think are most likely to get the best figures and make the biggest contribution to a win. If they're all right-arm seamers, so be it. It didn't do us any harm in 2000 when we had Cork, Caddick, Gough and White, because they're all good bowlers.
and pretty much all 4 of them were different kinds of bowlers, as opposed to the 'all-swing-no-pace' attack of caddick,hoggard,anderson and johnson......
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Richard said:
Some of these threads really are amusing!
Oh very funny - take the mickey out of PY for not expecting Strauss to emerge so rapidly or Giles to buck his previous career trend and perform well.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
marc71178 said:
Oh very funny - take the mickey out of PY for not expecting Strauss to emerge so rapidly or Giles to buck his previous career trend and perform well.
Why would Strauss perform though? His domestic stats were pretty average and he's clearly an mediocre over-achieving batsman with a whole lot of luck.

(Don't read into it anyone. It's hot over here.:p)
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Craig said:
It seems the days of being picked soley for your 'keeping (ok Zimbabwe are different case, but that is another story) are over, and it appears Jones has that over Read.
You're suggesting that Taibu wouldn't merit his place as a batsman?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
superkingdave said:
Richards comments about finger spinners not being effective in England have being spot on this year :p
Yeah, amazing, don't think anyone could possibly have predicted we'd get three fingerspin-friendly wickets in England in one season - when was the last time that happened?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
You're suggesting that Taibu wouldn't merit his place as a batsman?
For Zimbabwe, yes, but not for anyone else.
He's only been worth a place in the Zimbabwe side since WC2003, after Andy Flower's retirement.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
PY said:
Can't remember if it's been done since the summer but who would be in your top England team for one year into the future?

1. Marcus Trescothick
2. Michael Vaughan*
3. Mark Butcher
4. Ed Smith
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Geraint Jones+
7. Andy Flintoff
8. Simon Jones
9. Gareth Batty (only promising young-ish spinner I can think of)
10. Steve Harmison
11. James Anderson

Discuss
now why exactly is jones batting ahead of flintoff?

and why is ed smith in the team ahead of ian bell?and surely yuou can do better than simon jones and gareth batty?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
luckyeddie said:
The point I was making was that PY had him in his 'who will be in the side in a year's time?' side - and of course Geraint Jones didn't make his debut until April this year - quite a time after PY suggested his inclusion.

Top spot by PY in my opinion.
I thought Jones should have been playing since Stewart's retirement.
Hence the fact I didn't say "what are you thinking, why the **** have you picked Jones instead of Read????"
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
sledger said:
now why exactly is jones batting ahead of flintoff?

and why is ed smith in the team ahead of ian bell?and surely yuou can do better than simon jones and gareth batty?
How's about the fact that it was over a year since PY posted it (I think), Giles was having a tough time, Ed Smith had had a brilliant season, Simon Jones was on the comeback trail and Freddie was still tarred with the 'inconsistent banger who ought to cool it once in a while and who knows - he might become good' label?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
marc71178 said:
Oh very funny - take the mickey out of PY for not expecting Strauss to emerge so rapidly or Giles to buck his previous career trend and perform well.
Whatever with Giles, surely no-one would have Gareth Batty anywhere near the best England XI? Except the selectors, of course.
And what's Strauss got to do with Smith? The main thing is, no-one would have Smith anywhere near the England side - even though he's not done anywhere near as poorly in Test-cricket as many seem to think.
I'm not taking the mick out of Pete, just saying inevitably there will be some comments that a year's hindsight can make look very amusing - there are plenty from me, too. Like the one about fingerspin-friendly wickets in England.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
luckyeddie said:
I think Richard's being particularly foolhardy resurrecting some of these threads,

6643 posts, 500 threads, 3 topics
So I should start more threads?
Why?
 

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