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New Feature : Country vs Club and Why IPL needs a separate window

Woodster

International Captain
Good read mate.

I don't necessarily agree with parts of it, but in the players case, I do agree that a lot of them are money motivated, but not all of them. There have been a number of players that have turned down the IPL in favour of what is right for their cricketing career and development, Admittedly these players are probably still earning a reasonable amount of money but nothing like they could earn in the IPL. I personally think T20 cricket is the least enjoyable, and am pleased when cricketers turn down the IPL for the greater good of their career.

That is not to say I don't understand why certain cricketers opt for T20. Each case is different and who am I to suggest a player looking after his family by securing their financial future is wrong. Certain players are also clearly better at this format than they would be in the far more testing environment of Test cricket. Players mentioned in your article such as Kieron Pollard, and Dwayne Bravo, are very useful cricketers in T20 and can earn money to reflect their effectiveness, while they would not be (or in Bravo's case, is not) as highly valued in Test cricket, simply because they don't have the skills to excel in that format.

Money is the main reason players play in the IPL, and that's fair enough. As you allude to in the article, the offer to play in India must be difficult to turn down if you are not already being well paid for your services by your country.
 

gvenkat

State Captain
Thanks Paul. But I can give you some instances where players did put their names in the hat and did not get selected. Two players that come to mind or Ravi Bopara and Michael Clarke. I'm not saying that every player is after the money, But it's too tempting for them not to pass even if it is at the expense of their careers. SO it would be better if we can get a window which would not only make the players happy but the respective boards as well.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Thanks Paul. But I can give you some instances where players did put their names in the hat and did not get selected. Two players that come to mind or Ravi Bopara and Michael Clarke. I'm not saying that every player is after the money, But it's too tempting for them not to pass even if it is at the expense of their careers. SO it would be better if we can get a window which would not only make the players happy but the respective boards as well.
Absolutely, there are several players that put their names forward and failed to get selected, no doubt about that. There were several County players that did so, I suppose what I'm against more is those that should be representing their country and not playing T20 cricket. But it's solely down to the money and who are we to say they are making the wrong decision.

I agree that the only way this can be avoided is to have an IPL window.

You mention Bopara and Clarke as two players that turned the IPL down, there are of course several more such as Stuart Broad, and a few more of the Aussies. Also lesser known players such as Jos Buttler at Somerset is also reported to have turned offers from the IPL down so he can continue his own development.
 

gvenkat

State Captain
Absolutely, there are several players that put their names forward and failed to get selected, no doubt about that. There were several County players that did so, I suppose what I'm against more is those that should be representing their country and not playing T20 cricket. But it's solely down to the money and who are we to say they are making the wrong decision.

I agree that the only way this can be avoided is to have an IPL window.

You mention Bopara and Clarke as two players that turned the IPL down, there are of course several more such as Stuart Broad, and a few more of the Aussies. Also lesser known players such as Jos Buttler at Somerset is also reported to have turned offers from the IPL down so he can continue his own development.
Actually Clarke and Bopara got turned down by IPL. Clarke did not even put his name in the hat. IIRC, Hayden had something to do with that Clarke thing. he said something like Clarke asked $1M and Modi laughed. Don't recall. It's purely a players call as to what he wants to do. My argument is based on the premise that IPL cannot be ignored anymore as an oblivious league since it has obvious repercussions all over the world.
 

Woodster

International Captain
Actually Clarke and Bopara got turned down by IPL. Clarke did not even put his name in the hat. IIRC, Hayden had something to do with that Clarke thing. he said something like Clarke asked $1M and Modi laughed. Don't recall. It's purely a players call as to what he wants to do. My argument is based on the premise that IPL cannot be ignored anymore as an oblivious league since it has obvious repercussions all over the world.
Clarke has opted out of the IPL in the past, and Bopara turned down Rajasthan Royals this year after they lost Paul Collingwood to injury to concentrate on trying to get his place back in the Test side. Eoin Morgan on the other hand has opted for the IPL instead of getting some first-class runs under his belt with Middlesex before the Sri Lanka series, which I hoped he would have done.

I agree that the IPL cannot be ignored, it's not a competition I watch a great deal of, but a window for the league seems the only logical conclusion.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Ever think that Clarke saying $1m was because if someone would pay that him then he'd turn up but if less was on offer he'd not be interested in it?

Also Bopara has definitely turned it down this year (and there's a few other Englishmen who didn't make themselves available in previous years because they wanted to concentrate on their international careers)
 

gvenkat

State Captain
Also Bopara has definitely turned it down this year (and there's a few other Englishmen who didn't make themselves available in previous years because they wanted to concentrate on their international careers)
Bopara was in the Initial auction in 2011 and was unsold. He along with a string of English players did not get picked. When later an opportunity presented itself he turned it down. So it was not that he did not fancy a stint in IPL, not sure what surfaced later he turned the offer down.

The other fact you have to take in to account is. There are only four players from other nations that can accommodated. So the players were not wary of that fact before and all and sundry put their name in now they know where they stand and the less number of folks.
 
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Spark

Global Moderator
Actually Clarke and Bopara got turned down by IPL. Clarke did not even put his name in the hat. IIRC, Hayden had something to do with that Clarke thing. he said something like Clarke asked $1M and Modi laughed. Don't recall. It's purely a players call as to what he wants to do. My argument is based on the premise that IPL cannot be ignored anymore as an oblivious league since it has obvious repercussions all over the world.
That was for the second IPL in 2009 that everyone went "errr, $1M? Or not" to. The first IPL he opted out of was because his father had contracted cancer, I believe.

Mitch Johnson is another that comes to mind.

Having said that though it's a lot easier to opt out of IPL when you're already on a big national contract anyway, which Clarke was by that time.
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Bopara was in the Initial auction. He along with a string of English players did not get picked. When later an opportunity presented itself he turned it down. So it was not that he did not fancy a stint in IPL, not sure what surfaced later he turned the offer down.

The other fact you have to take in to account is. There are only four players from other nations that can accommodated. So the players were not wary of that fact before and all and sundry put their name in now they know where they stand and the less number of folks.
He may have been in the initial auction but the fact remains that when he was offered a chance to play, he turned it down. He obviously re-evaluated his priorities in that time and deserves credit for that.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Bopara was in the Initial auction. He along with a string of English players did not get picked. When later an opportunity presented itself he turned it down. So it was not that he did not fancy a stint in IPL, not sure what surfaced later he turned the offer down.

The other fact you have to take in to account is. There are only four players from other nations that can accommodated. So the players were not wary of that fact before and all and sundry put their name in now they know where they stand and the less number of folks.
Hopefully your piece is more accurate than this post.

edit:
The trend has started already with Lasith Malinga giving up on Tests and Chris Gayle deciding to opt out of national duty.
Nope.
 
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gvenkat

State Captain
Hopefully your piece is more accurate than this post.

edit:

Nope.
I meant to say the initial auction in 2011. If you misunderstood that as the Initial auction in 2008 apologies. If not here you go. Find Bopara among the list of unsold players.

IPL 2011: Ryder, Kartik, Kaif go in re-bidding | Cricket News | Indian Premier League 2011 | ESPN Cricinfo Search for Bopara.

Really nope? Did you listen to Gayle's Audio interview? If not you should listen to it and then come back and comment on that subject. Regarding Malinga I think the degenerative knee is just a whole load of Bull. He was upset with the board etc. Go read Dileep Premchandran's article about the entire Malinga saga

If you want the Gayle Audio I can link it up. The deal was he asked the board that he wanted to play the full IPL, which would have meant he would have had to miss the Pak series. The CEO said no and then all hell broke lose.
 
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gvenkat

State Captain
Hopefully your piece is more accurate than this post.

edit:

Nope.
That was for the second IPL in 2009 that everyone went "errr, $1M? Or not" to. The first IPL he opted out of was because his father had contracted cancer, I believe.

Mitch Johnson is another that comes to mind.

Having said that though it's a lot easier to opt out of IPL when you're already on a big national contract anyway, which Clarke was by that time.
Yeah. That is why I said what surfaced for Michael Clarke. But it's not that he was actually not fancying his options. Regarding Mitch, refer to my point about playing only four foreign players, Do you really think some one would fancy him over a Brett Lee or Shoaib Akthar or Umar Gul(remember they were all in the first edition)

Mitch knew that he won't fetch and buy and probably decided against putting his hat. Not saying that he might have been committed to the Aussie cause, we don't know that for sure. The "commitment" is just a smoke screen.
 
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Furball

Evil Scotsman
I meant to say the initial auction in 2011. If you misunderstood that as the Initial auction in 2008 apologies. If not here you go. Find Bopara among the list of unsold players.

IPL 2011: Ryder, Kartik, Kaif go in re-bidding | Cricket News | Indian Premier League 2011 | ESPN Cricinfo Search for Bopara.

Really nope? Did you listen to Gayle's Audio interview? If not you should listen to it and then come back and comment on that subject. Regarding Malinga I think the degenerative knee is just a whole load of Bull. He was upset with the board etc. Go read Dileep Premchandran's article about the entire Malinga saga

If you want the Gayle Audio I can link it up. The deal was he asked the board that he wanted to play the full IPL, which would have meant he would have had to miss the Pak series. The CEO said no and then all hell broke lose.
Yeah, it's not as if Malinga's had a knee injury which kept him out of all cricket for almost 2 years.

Bopara was signed for this year's IPL, but opted to stay in England and play First Class cricket with the aim of grabbing the vacant number 6 slot in the Test lineup.
 

Borges

International Regular
IMHO, this entire discussion on a separate window for IPL is a moot one.

The BCCI doesn't care whether the IPL has a window or not. The IPL is a commercial success because of the Tendulkars and the Sehwags and the Dhonis. From a business perspective it doesn't make the least bit of difference whether a particular international player, be it Kevin Pietersen or Chris Gayle, plays in it or not. Just as it doesn't make the least bit of difference whether people in Australia or England watch it or not. All that the BCCI needs to do is ensure that the IPL does not clash with India's international schedule, and they don't need any window for that.

So, who is going to ask the ICC for a separate window for IPL? The ECB, perhaps?
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
IMHO, this entire discussion on a separate window for IPL is a moot one.

The BCCI doesn't care whether the IPL has a window or not. The IPL is a commercial success because of the Tendulkars and the Sehwags and the Dhonis. From a business perspective it doesn't make the least bit of difference whether a particular international player, be it Kevin Pietersen or Chris Gayle, plays in it or not. Just as it doesn't make the least bit of difference whether people in Australia or England watch it or not. All that the BCCI needs to do is ensure that the IPL does not clash with India's international schedule, and they don't need any window for that.

So, who is going to ask the ICC for a separate window for IPL? The ECB, perhaps?
Yeah I'm sure the IPL would do just as well if it was an Indian only tournament
 

Borges

International Regular
Yeah I'm sure the IPL would do just as well if it was an Indian only tournament
It is an Indian domestic tournament; just as much as the Big Bash is a domestic Aussie tournament or whatever they play in England is a domestic English tournament. It is just that international players participate in these tournaments.

Precisely which international players participate in it makes very little difference to the marketability of IPL; so if some of them can't play because of international commitments or some others opt not to participate, the BCCI is not going to lose any sleep over it. With the money power at their disposal, they would just buy some others.

Try asking for a window for the equivalent English or Aussie tournament, where too international players participate, so that the likes of Tendulkar or Sehwag can be spared for it, and you will come to know exactly what the BCCI thinks of windows for domestic tournaments.

I agree that it is harsh, but that is the reality.
 

gvenkat

State Captain
IMHO, this entire discussion on a separate window for IPL is a moot one.

The BCCI doesn't care whether the IPL has a window or not. The IPL is a commercial success because of the Tendulkars and the Sehwags and the Dhonis. From a business perspective it doesn't make the least bit of difference whether a particular international player, be it Kevin Pietersen or Chris Gayle, plays in it or not. Just as it doesn't make the least bit of difference whether people in Australia or England watch it or not. All that the BCCI needs to do is ensure that the IPL does not clash with India's international schedule, and they don't need any window for that.

So, who is going to ask the ICC for a separate window for IPL? The ECB, perhaps?
For a start the ICC needs to step up and work with the concerned national boards to carve out a calendar for IPL as part of the FTP
I said it's up to ICC and the other boards. I know BCCI don't give a hoot about the other nations.
 

gvenkat

State Captain
It is an Indian domestic tournament; just as much as the Big Bash is a domestic Aussie tournament or whatever they play in England is a domestic English tournament. It is just that international players participate in these tournaments.

Precisely which international players participate in it makes very little difference to the marketability of IPL; so if some of them can't play because of international commitments or some others opt not to participate, the BCCI is not going to lose any sleep over it. With the money power at their disposal, they would just buy some others.

Try asking for a window for the equivalent English or Aussie tournament, where too international players participate, so that the likes of Tendulkar or Sehwag can be spared for it, and you will come to know exactly what the BCCI thinks of windows for domestic tournaments.

I agree that it is harsh, but that is the reality.

The bigger picture is the TV rights. How much does an English county game fetch when compared to an IPL game. It's purely the prerogative of the other boards aprt from BCCI to make sure that they have a bargaining chip. It's going to be a collective effort.
 

Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
So if another multi-million dollar league springs up - like proposed Pak-SL joint league with the backig of Oil-lords of Arab, who could buy off SRK's arse - should there be another window for it?
 

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