*** West Indies Cricket Documentary ***

[shivfan]

Hadlee-Garner bouncer contest? Can you shed more light on this???? Sounds interesting.

It was Viv's first series as captain, a home series against NZ, in 1986, I think....

Richards' tactics as captain were no different from what they were under Lloyd, and to what the Windies were subjected to when they toured Australia in 1975-76, and were subjected to a barrage of intimidatory pace bowling from the likes of Lillee and Thomson. Basically, if you have a fast pace bowling contingent, you use it to either get wickets, or intimidate the batsmen.

So, as usual, the Windies pacers tested the NZ batsmen, but Hadlee didn't like it. Thru excellent batting by Martin Crowe, NZ managed to draw the first two Tests, but the WIndies turned it on and won the last two.

I went to the final Test at Sabina Park, and the Windies were batting. Hadlee felt that the time was right to get his own back, and when Garner came in to bat, he subjected the Big Bird to a barrage of short-pitched bowling. I remember seeing Garner standing there, glaring back at Hadlee, and nodding his head slowly, as if to say, this elephant won't forget. But the crowd applauded Hadlee's excellent spell of short-pitched bowling....

The next day, when Hadlee came in to bat, Garner asked Richards for the ball. Garner then went on to put Hadlee through a variety of contortionist moves with an excellent spell of short-pitched bowling, which the crowd loved.

This is the kind of contest I miss....

But after the series, Hadlee complained about the tactics. To me, it struck me that he was complaining mainly because NZ lost. There were no complaints when Lillee and Thomson were doing it.

 

[robelinda]

I'll see if i can dig up some footage.....

 

[Uppercut]

<3333 robelinda

 

[zaremba]

I've heard this about it, also that some people take issue with it barely mentioning the likes of Headley, Hall, the Ws and Sobers. But then, if your main problem with something is that there's not enough of it, that can only be a good sign.

Yeah quite. And the point of the film is to explore the impact of the Lloyd Windies team at a particular point in Caribbean history.

The main reason I expected it to go on a bit longer was that the opening sequence is of that great footage of the Judge being targetted by Walsh and Bishop in 1990 - amazing stuff - and so my appetite was whetted for a bit of action from that era.

There's also a film coming out about the 1981 Ashes I see.

 

[FireInBabylon]

Out In Cinemas today

FIRE IN BABYLON is out in cinemas TODAY

Check out the Cinema List

"Outstanding" The Wisden Cricketer
"Explosive" The Daily Mail
"A magnificent documentary" 5 Stars Financial Times
"A real firecracker of a film" The Evening Standard
"Joyous and uplifting" The Daily Telegraph
"Remarkable documentary" The Independent
"The stuff that drama is made of" Sight & Sound
"Remarkable…A compelling film and about much more than simply cricket" The Spectator

 

[smash84]

It was Viv's first series as captain, a home series against NZ, in 1986, I think....

Richards' tactics as captain were no different from what they were under Lloyd, and to what the Windies were subjected to when they toured Australia in 1975-76, and were subjected to a barrage of intimidatory pace bowling from the likes of Lillee and Thomson. Basically, if you have a fast pace bowling contingent, you use it to either get wickets, or intimidate the batsmen.

So, as usual, the Windies pacers tested the NZ batsmen, but Hadlee didn't like it. Thru excellent batting by Martin Crowe, NZ managed to draw the first two Tests, but the WIndies turned it on and won the last two.

I went to the final Test at Sabina Park, and the Windies were batting. Hadlee felt that the time was right to get his own back, and when Garner came in to bat, he subjected the Big Bird to a barrage of short-pitched bowling. I remember seeing Garner standing there, glaring back at Hadlee, and nodding his head slowly, as if to say, this elephant won't forget. But the crowd applauded Hadlee's excellent spell of short-pitched bowling....

The next day, when Hadlee came in to bat, Garner asked Richards for the ball. Garner then went on to put Hadlee through a variety of contortionist moves with an excellent spell of short-pitched bowling, which the crowd loved.

This is the kind of contest I miss....

But after the series, Hadlee complained about the tactics. To me, it struck me that he was complaining mainly because NZ lost. There were no complaints when Lillee and Thomson were doing it.

haha........sounds awesome

 

[shivfan]

Just been to see it at the BFI with Wisden18.

Great film. Great sound-track. Plenty of cricket action and a dollop of social/historical commentary. Great footage and photos including, naturally, lots of vicious bouncers narrowly missing batsmen, and some squarely hitting them. A fair amount of talking-heads stuff from Viv Richards, Colin Croft, Deryck Murray (sp?), and a bit of Big Bird, Clive Lloyd, Gordon Greenidge, Dessie Haynes and others. The real star of the show, though, was the sinister-yet-loveable Andy Roberts, who came across, as he's always come across to me, as the sort of man who'd carry a knife. His greatest line in the film: "They called me Hit Man. I don't know why. I didn't try to hit people. But... people... did... get hit."

My main gripe is that it ends quite suddenly after the 1984 blackwash series (the series that, England fans will recall, was cancelled shortly before the 1st Test. The oft-quoted 5-0 scoreline refers to the exhibition matches played by non-representative teams). I'd have loved to see more - the second blackwash series, the rise of Ambrose, Walsh and Lara - but then I'm a cricket nerd and I suppose the big story to the wider film-going public is what happened between 76 and 84. It's just that I'd had my appetite whetted by the stuff we were treated to.

Afterwards they had a Q&A session with the director and producer, plus Colin Croft, Gordon Greenidge, and Jeff Thomson, which was excellent.

I've got the DVD....

I watched half of it last night, up to 1979, when my wife told me to turn it off and go to bed.

But I enjoyed it so far. Slightly melodramatic, but enjoyable still. And yes, I saw that quote from Andy....

 

[GotSpin]

Need to order this bad boy soon

That Andy Roberts quote is epic

 

[robelinda]

My blu ray just came in the mail 5 minutes ago! Pre-order was successful! Just what i need on a freezing cold winter morning, a brilliant cricket blu ray.

 

[centurymaker]

Are they showing it in nz???

 

[Jacknife]

I had been waiting for this to come out and got in a pre-order so I could get it as soon as I could and was really excited about watching it, so I don't know if that was part of the problem. I wouldn't say I was disappointed, but it didn't live up to the hype imo. Without going into too much detail , there was not enough cricket footage of the games, just a few short snippets, or stories around the Tests and I'd of liked the time frame to have been longer, maybe through the whole of the 80's and it was far too political for my liking although I realize it was a main ingredient of the film.
Sill really worth watching but after the trailer and the reviews, I thought it was going to be better.

 

[Austerlitz]

Loved it.But yeah it WAS a little political.Little more cricket imagery could have been there.
But all in all great watch.

 

[Params7]

Any information on the bluray if its region locked? I would want to play it on my US PS3, though games are region free movies are still region locked on bluray. I wish netflix would have carried this.

 

[wpdavid]

I watched it yesterday having belatedly ordered a copy. Lots of it was great of course, and I think that the broad political aspect was entirely justified. Plus the soundtrack will almost be worth a purchase in its own right.

I did have a few quibbles though. As others have said, there wasn't enough actual footage for me, even allowing for the fact that this wasn't a cricket documentary as such. And there were minor errors that simply smacked of laziness - like the photo accompanying the Packer section that was actually the England, Aus & WI sides playing a triangular tournament in 1980. In one sense it didn't matter at all, but I just like these things to be right.

But my biggest gripe is that it perpetuates the myth that WI cricket was dire until Clive Lloyd took over the captaincy, saw the light in the 1975/76 Australian thrashing, instantly introduced the four pace-men attack and hey presto. I can only guess what Kanhai, Sobers and Worrall made of their captaincy efforts being dismissed as 'calypso cricket'. All of them led sides to England that won just as comfortably as the famous 1976 series. From a purely English pov, the 'grovel series was simply an extension of what had happened in 3 of the previous 4 at home to the WI. At the time, I felt that Kanhai was no less the hard-nosed professional than Lloyd, and I don't doubt for a moment that he would have unleashed an all pace attack if he had the same depth of quick bowlers that Lloyd soon had coming his way. Once Lance Gibbs' powers had started to decline, anyway.

As for Lloyd's inspired captaincy, the decision to play four quicks wasn't a simple response to what happened in Australia. The process may well have begun in that tour but it was unquestionably accelerated when India chased down 400+ a few months later (which was completely ignored by the film-makers) and should have been sealed when Holding took 14 on what was supposed to be a fast bowlers graveyard at the Oval. That being said, even after Croft and Garner emerged, WI still played various spinners at home to Pakistan as late as 1977.

Anyway, still a good film though.

 

[shivfan]

I've watched it in its entirety now, and I enjoyed it, largely because it's an aspect of WI cricket history that hasn't been put to film before....

But I agree with the quibbles mentioned above. I think it did over-simplify things a bit, but unfortunately that is the tendency of movie-making these days. It has to fit a simple formula.

That said, I'm glad I bought it, and I will watch it again. I now have to get my kids to watch it, so that they can understand where WI cricket is coming from, the challenges they encountered and overcame, and how good they really were....

 

[smash84]

I watched it yesterday having belatedly ordered a copy. Lots of it was great of course, and I think that the broad political aspect was entirely justified. Plus the soundtrack will almost be worth a purchase in its own right.

I did have a few quibbles though. As others have said, there wasn't enough actual footage for me, even allowing for the fact that this wasn't a cricket documentary as such. And there were minor errors that simply smacked of laziness - like the photo accompanying the Packer section that was actually the England, Aus & WI sides playing a triangular tournament in 1980. In one sense it didn't matter at all, but I just like these things to be right.

But my biggest gripe is that it perpetuates the myth that WI cricket was dire until Clive Lloyd took over the captaincy, saw the light in the 1975/76 Australian thrashing, instantly introduced the four pace-men attack and hey presto. I can only guess what Kanhai, Sobers and Worrall made of their captaincy efforts being dismissed as 'calypso cricket'. All of them led sides to England that won just as comfortably as the famous 1976 series. From a purely English pov, the 'grovel series was simply an extension of what had happened in 3 of the previous 4 at home to the WI. At the time, I felt that Kanhai was no less the hard-nosed professional than Lloyd, and I don't doubt for a moment that he would have unleashed an all pace attack if he had the same depth of quick bowlers that Lloyd soon had coming his way. Once Lance Gibbs' powers had started to decline, anyway.

As for Lloyd's inspired captaincy, the decision to play four quicks wasn't a simple response to what happened in Australia. The process may well have begun in that tour but it was unquestionably accelerated when India chased down 400+ a few months later (which was completely ignored by the film-makers) and should have been sealed when Holding took 14 on what was supposed to be a fast bowlers graveyard at the Oval. That being said, even after Croft and Garner emerged, WI still played various spinners at home to Pakistan as late as 1977.

Anyway, still a good film though.

top quality post

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I watched it yesterday having belatedly ordered a copy. Lots of it was great of course, and I think that the broad political aspect was entirely justified. Plus the soundtrack will almost be worth a purchase in its own right.

I did have a few quibbles though. As others have said, there wasn't enough actual footage for me, even allowing for the fact that this wasn't a cricket documentary as such. And there were minor errors that simply smacked of laziness - like the photo accompanying the Packer section that was actually the England, Aus & WI sides playing a triangular tournament in 1980. In one sense it didn't matter at all, but I just like these things to be right.

But my biggest gripe is that it perpetuates the myth that WI cricket was dire until Clive Lloyd took over the captaincy, saw the light in the 1975/76 Australian thrashing, instantly introduced the four pace-men attack and hey presto. I can only guess what Kanhai, Sobers and Worrall made of their captaincy efforts being dismissed as 'calypso cricket'. All of them led sides to England that won just as comfortably as the famous 1976 series. From a purely English pov, the 'grovel series was simply an extension of what had happened in 3 of the previous 4 at home to the WI. At the time, I felt that Kanhai was no less the hard-nosed professional than Lloyd, and I don't doubt for a moment that he would have unleashed an all pace attack if he had the same depth of quick bowlers that Lloyd soon had coming his way. Once Lance Gibbs' powers had started to decline, anyway.

As for Lloyd's inspired captaincy, the decision to play four quicks wasn't a simple response to what happened in Australia. The process may well have begun in that tour but it was unquestionably accelerated when India chased down 400+ a few months later (which was completely ignored by the film-makers) and should have been sealed when Holding took 14 on what was supposed to be a fast bowlers graveyard at the Oval. That being said, even after Croft and Garner emerged, WI still played various spinners at home to Pakistan as late as 1977.

Anyway, still a good film though.

Good post. I agree apart from the first paragraph. The persecuted black man aspect was ludicrously overdone. Not because the "Blacks" weren't persecuted, but the idea that this was such a major impact on the success of the West Indies cricket team is palpable nonsense. Their success was due to a lot of great players coming through at the same time - which is something that will probably never happen again. The notion that the group of players were striven to greatness by the thought of gaining revenge for the treatment of their ancestors is completely fanciful.

 

[wpdavid]

Good post. I agree apart from the first paragraph. The persecuted black man aspect was ludicrously overdone. Not because the "Blacks" weren't persecuted, but the idea that this was such a major impact on the success of the West Indies cricket team is palpable nonsense. Their success was due to a lot of great players coming through at the same time - which is something that will probably never happen again. The notion that the group of players were striven to greatness by the thought of gaining revenge for the treatment of their ancestors is completely fanciful.

I'm sure that's right. They may well have been motivated by Greig's obnoxious stupidity and the casual racism that they encountered in Australia during 1975/76, but no way did that make silk purses out of sows' ears. However, as black men growing up in the late 1960s and early 1970s it would have been very odd if they weren't aware of and affected by the political climate of the time: that's all I meant by my opening comment. Beyond that, my guess is that the African angle came later rather than as an initial motivation.

 

[jan]

Being into languages I enjoyed all the accents of English the former WI players speak.
And my respect for Viv Richards got much bigger eventhough he is smaller than I would have guessed from the film

Was it really humiliating to get beaten by a black team back then?

 

[smash84]

being into languages i enjoyed all the accents of english the former wi players speak.
And my respect for viv richards got much bigger eventhough he is smaller than i would have guessed from the film

was it really humiliating to get beaten by a black team back then?

:-o