Imran V Javed Test captain

[archie mac]

Who was the better Test captain

Javed won 14 lost 6

Imran won 14 lost 8

 

[robelinda]

I would think this thread woudnt get a lot of posts due to very few people having witnessed all 3 captain. Instinct says Imran, but to be honest I dont know a lot about Javed's style of captaincy beyond a bunch of one day matches ive seen, I assume he captained like his personality but not like Imran.

 

[hang on]

a very subjective interpretation of the matter if i may....

given the general demographics of the pakistani population at the time (relative to now), with cricket being a mirror or microcosm of the same, imran had the advantage of being of the english speaking elite - highly anglicised, in manners and affectation - upper classes, who often studied in particular schools before being packed off (not based on dint of hardwork or cerebral ability, necessarily) to oxbridge, after which they would swan back, returning to rule, as it were. majid khan and others before him were prime examples.

and, such people, then, more than now, were held in quite some awe by the average lumpen prole (not in strict marxian terms, but relatively speaking....in this case the bourgeoisie would also be included in the lumpen category; remember, we are taking about the super elite, here), whether washed or unwashed. after all, they were born to command and rule, and they did speak, so beautifully, the language that permeated those teams associated with all things of cricketing iconography and allure. the javeds of the world, for all their nous and spirit, and even general charisma, couldn't even begin to break the hold of the imrans of the world, no matter their ability at actually being demotically (imran would be the apotheosis of the despotic) capable or suitable. and were at a significant disadvantage. this, i think needs to be brought to the table, when examing their relative credentials as captains and leaders of men.

not to take this thread down a subaltern riff, but just would like some posters on here to corroborate, fleshout, deny etc. my take on the matter.

btw, i voted for imran.

 

[smash84]

a very subjective interpretation of the matter if i may....

given the general demographics of the pakistani population at the time (relative to now), with cricket being a mirror or microcosm of the same, imran had the advantage of being of the english speaking elite - highly anglicised, in manners and affectation - upper classes, who often studied in particular schools before being packed off (not based on dint of hardwork or cerebral ability, necessarily) to oxbridge, after which they would swan back, returning to rule, as it were. majid khan and others before him were prime examples.

and, such people, then, more than now, were held in quite some awe by the average lumpen prole (not in strict marxian terms, but relatively speaking....in this case the bourgeoisie would also be included in the lumpen category; remember, we are taking about the super elite, here), whether washed or unwashed. after all, they were born to command and rule, and they did speak, so beautifully, the language that permeated those teams associated with all things of cricketing iconography and allure. the javeds of the world, for all their nous and spirit, and even general charisma, couldn't even begin to break the hold of the imrans of the world, no matter their ability at actually being demotically (imran would be the apotheosis of the despotic) capable or suitable. and were at a significant disadvantage. this, i think needs to be brought to the table, when examing their relative credentials as captains and leaders of men.

not to take this thread down a subaltern riff, but just would like some posters on here to corroborate, fleshout, deny etc. my take on the matter.

btw, i voted for imran.

Written in quite flowery language I must say (sitting with a thesaurus perhaps???) you do have a valid point. You didn't mention sobers.

 

[hang on]

no thesaurus. general old fashioned pomposity.

 

[weldone]

Imran was an amazing man-manager, and an average tactician. Haven't seen Javed or Sobers captaining live, so can't say much about their captaincy (except what I've heard, and watched in recorded matches) and can't vote in this thread either.

 

[kingkallis]

Witnessed Imran in '92 world cup. I guess Javed captained the Pakistani side that toured England in '93 but I was too young to remember much.

From what I have read here on CW, I guess Imran > Javed

 

[ankitj]

May not be very relevant but only a day or two back, I was watching Imran's interview on TV. On captaincy, he says that a captain has to lead by example, everyone knows tactics, and for that reason, he says, Mike Brearley was not a great captain.

Well Imran has never been a modest guy

 

[Blaze 18]

Imran Khan.

 

[smash84]

May not be very relevant but only a day or two back, I was watching Imran's interview on TV. On captaincy, he says that a captain has to lead by example, everyone knows tactics, and for that reason, he says, Mike Brearley was not a great captain.

Well Imran has never been a modest guy

lol.....true......modesty is a virtue that Imran never possessed.............

'People carried us away on their shoulders into a motorcade' | Cricket videos, MP3, podcasts, cricket audio at ESPN Cricinfo

This gives a lot of insight into Imran's captaincy. The guy was awesome as a captain.

Ramiz here mentions that when Pakistan were bundled out for 74 in the 92 WC league match against England and rain washed out the match Imran called the team after the match and told them that we get 1 point for this match and this 1 point will win us the world cup...........and win they did....

 

[Howe_zat]

no thesaurus. general old fashioned pomposity.

This one I like.

 

[Himannv]

Imran seems like the obvious option here.

 

[Xuhaib]

Javed apart from the 92 series away win to England where he had the services of 2 W's @ their peak would follow the same formula prepare a crumbler pack the side with spinners and hope to get some lucky decisions from the local umps. Imran achieved more away from home won in India, England and got a drawn series in WI where there were unlucky to be on the rough side of the local umpiring. Even at home he never played the home advantage like Javed he initiated the use of two neutral umpire and also the pitches were never tailor made spinning tracks and allowed every one equal chance.

In a nutshell Imran for me.

 

[salman85]

I won't talk about Sobers since i don't know about him as captain.Coming to the Javed and Imran comparison,I said this another post too,Javed was always considered more tactically strong.But Imran was a brilliant man manager.Imran was articulate,and generally gave out very positive signals.The overall force of his personality,the style,his ability with the ball,made him much more acceptable than any other man in charge.You could call him a dictator in some ways,as Ritchie Benaud said "He was the only one who when issued orders,knew that they would be followed".Javed on the other hand,despite having a brilliant cricketing brain,arguably a better one than Imran,was a poor man manager.He had the tactics and mind,but he didn't have the man management skills of Imran which is kind of obvious from his post playing career too.

This is probably like the Younis Khan,Inzamam thing.Inzamam was more succesful as a captain than the former,but Younis was better tactically.Inzamam captained the side with an iron fist,whereas Younis's poor management skills led him to several run-ins with the board and fellow players.

 

[archie mac]

Javed apart from the 92 series away win to England where he had the services of 2 W's @ their peak would follow the same formula prepare a crumbler pack the side with spinners and hope to get some lucky decisions from the local umps. Imran achieved more away from home won in India, England and got a drawn series in WI where there were unlucky to be on the rough side of the local umpiring. Even at home he never played the home advantage like Javed he initiated the use of two neutral umpire and also the pitches were never tailor made spinning tracks and allowed every one equal chance.

In a nutshell Imran for me.

I think it fair to say that Imran and Javed were the two best players for Pakistan at the time. It should be noted that Imran had the services of Javed for all of his career but Imran was not always in the sides that Javed captained

 

[Xuhaib]

I think it fair to say that Imran and Javed were the two best players for Pakistan at the time. It should be noted that Imran had the services of Javed for all of his career but Imran was not always in the sides that Javed captained

yeah good point maybe if Javed had Imran services all the time he may have gone for a more aggressive strategy.

 

[salman85]

Pakistan Captains:

Imran > Kardar > Javed

 

[marc71178]

Amazing how Javed having a better record in spite of missing his strongest player can be overlooked because of something that is irrelevant in the argument.

 

[salman85]

That irrelevant thing being?Mentioning Kardar?

 

[marc71178]

No, the World Cup.