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Captaincy - does it or doesn't it?

hang on

State Vice-Captain
Affect a player's performance? Now, I am not referring to the reading of the riot act to a recalcitrant but talented player (an asif being torn another one by a person like imran would be the exemplar), but am referring to the affect of the role of captaincy on the captain's own performance/form.

Some players arguably thrive on the 'added(?)' responsibility of captaincy (Lara, Smith, Imran while others seem to baulk at the onerous honour, and let it affect their form (Tendulkar). (Of course, the affect of coincidences and the timing aspect of things - players often becoming captains when past their peak etc. should not be ruled out....)

Personally, I don't think that captaincy and suchlike completely intangible attributes should be taken into account while considering the worth of a cricketer. What do u think?
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I think it should be taken into account. It is added pressure and responsibility. It is drawing your attention and energy away from yourself and for the team. How you gauge how it affects certain players is a different question though and harder to answer.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
There's no one answer to this. Every player is different as people and will react differently to the added responsibility. Some will thrive, some will falter, some won't be affected at all.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This is an interesting question, the more so with some individuals than others.

Ian Botham is one I find particularly interesting. He had a brief stint as captain - appointed when 24, he captained for a dozen Tests none of which were won - as we all know he was replaced as captain by Mike Brearley immediately prior to Headingly '81 and the rest, as they say, is history.

Nine of the first ten of the Tests were against the West Indies. It was a 1-0 defeat at home in '80 and 2-0 in the Caribbean in 80/81. In the context of what happened for the rest of the decade England didn't actually do too badly under his leadership.

I believe now, as I did then, that he shouldn't have been made captain in 1980 but I always felt he should have got the captaincy later in his career - his last series in which he justified his place was 86/87 yet he carried on playing, when injury and other issues permitted, until 1992 whilst achieving comparatively little.

We hear a lot of the bloke as a pundit - would the captaincy passing from Gower to him in 86 rather than to Mike Gatting have resulted in his batting better? (his bowling was getting to be a spent force by then) and how would England have done under him? - is he tactically astute? He doesn't always come across that way to me in the commentary box but he does have some decent ideas and is obviously no one's fool - would the power of his personality have had a positive or negative effect?
 

vcs

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I guess a successful captaincy stint is a positive thing to have on your resume.. but when players are compared and rated on it, it becomes kind of unfair because the hands that different captains are dealt are so, so vastly different that comparisons are rendered pretty meaningless.
 

mrcheek

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Captaincy has had a huge effect on Andrew Strauss.

For the 2006-7 tour of Australia, he expected to be named captain. When Flintoff got the nod, if seriously upset him, and he struggled for the next year or so, and even lost his place.

He eventually got back in, and since being given the captaincy, he has played even better. Tactically, he would never be called a great captain, but he leads from the front. and noone else can claim 3 victories by an innings in Australia...
 

Daemon

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Captaincy has had a huge effect on Andrew Strauss.

For the 2006-7 tour of Australia, he expected to be named captain. When Flintoff got the nod, if seriously upset him, and he struggled for the next year or so, and even lost his place.

He eventually got back in, and since being given the captaincy, he has played even better. Tactically, he would never be called a great captain, but he leads from the front. and noone else can claim 3 victories by an innings in Australia...
It's not easy to attribute wins and losses to a captain because it could very well be that things just fall into place at the right/wrong time. Whether a teams good form coincides with the change or whether the captain coaxed it out of the team is really impossible to judge. No doubt captains have an influence on the performance of the team, but you can't really say that a team has succeeded due to the captaincy. Some players react well under some captains, some don't.

Take Ponting for example, general consensus here is that he is a poor captain, yet enjoyed one of the most successful stints as one.
 

flibbertyjibber

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It's not easy to attribute wins and losses to a captain because it could very well be that things just fall into place at the right/wrong time. Whether a teams good form coincides with the change or whether the captain coaxed it out of the team is really impossible to judge. No doubt captains have an influence on the performance of the team, but you can't really say that a team has succeeded due to the captaincy. Some players react well under some captains, some don't.

Take Ponting for example, general consensus here is that he is a poor captain, yet enjoyed one of the most successful stints as one.
Vaughan was a good captain yet his batting average as captain was well below his career average and miles below his average purely as a batsman.

Strauss has thrived and for a long time Ponting scored heavily before age caught up with him.

Every player is different though and people could come up with as many Botham's as they could Border's.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Yes, mostly my view too.
But in some cases it really does. For e.g. Cronje and Stephen Fleming come to mind. I really rate Stephen Fleming very highly. He really made a difference and got some very good results out of a very ordinary team.
 

Mike5181

International Captain
But in some cases it really does. For e.g. Cronje and Stephen Fleming come to mind. I really rate Stephen Fleming very highly. He really made a difference and got some very good results out of a very ordinary team.
"very" is pushing it tbh. Astle, Cairns, Bond, Vettori, McMillan, Styris, Twose, Richardson, Mills. Stephen Fleming does stand a class apart from most of the captains today though.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
"very" is pushing it tbh. Astle, Cairns, Bond, Vettori, McMillan, Styris, Twose, Richardson, Mills. Stephen Fleming does stand a class apart from most of the captains today though.
ok, not very ordinary. An ordinary team.
 

salman85

International Debutant
It probably shouldn't be taken into account.Very naive example,but when you go through history and look at the greatest players of all time,how many of these players were great captains too?Not that many.

Doing well as a captain makes a great player look even better.But doing poorly as a captain won't make a great player look significantly poorer IMO.However,an average/good player being a great captain will probably make him look a lot better as a cricketer than he actually is.
 
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bagapath

International Captain
some already very good, bordering on great, players manage to step into the legendary league when given the added responsibility of captaincy.

imran khan is the prime example of this breed. allan border too comes into mind. some other good players like lloyd and steve waugh touched individual greatness when they were also asked to lead the team. even ranatunga played one level above his league as a skipper.

for some players captaincy somehow doesnt make much of a difference. viv richards and ricky ponting continued to bludgeon bowlers despite leading their teams through good and bad times for long periods. (i think ponting's recent slump in standards is age related. his coming back to form or fading away may have nothing to do with whether he continues as skipper or not). i would put gavaskar and greg chappell in this category as well.

for some players it is an obvious burden that it brings down their personal standards considerably. sachin tendulkar and ian botham were lesser players when they led their teams.

so..... yes. it does affect the individual's performance considerably. in team sports, captaining a cricket team must be the most challenging job.

the net worth of a player's career will be skewed by how long the captaincy stint lasted. ian botham's bad seasons as skipper dont sully his image as much as his fading years. but steve waugh's reputation is enhanced by his success as skipper. ponting, unfortunately, is going to be remembered less fondly than he deserves to be because of his teams losing in ashes and in india. that is because waugh and ponting led their teams for many years and are remembered as australian skippers while tendulkar and botham are merely great players who played under others most of the time, especially in the last few years of their careers.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
It probably shouldn't be taken into account.Very naive example,but when you go through history and look at the greatest players of all time,how many of these players were great captains too?Not that many.

Doing well as a captain makes a great player look even better.But doing poorly as a captain won't make a great player look significantly poorer IMO.However,an average/good player being a great captain will probably make him look a lot better as a cricketer than he actually is.
awta
 

smash84

The Tiger King
some already very good, bordering on great, players manage to step into the legendary league when given the added responsibility of captaincy.

imran khan is the prime example of this breed. allan border too comes into mind. some other good players like lloyd and steve waugh touched individual greatness when they were also asked to lead the team. even ranatunga played one level above his league as a skipper.

for some players captaincy somehow doesnt make much of a difference. viv richards and ricky ponting continued to bludgeon bowlers despite leading their teams through good and bad times for long periods. (i think ponting's recent slump in standards is age related. his coming back to form or fading away may have nothing to do with whether he continues as skipper or not). i would put gavaskar and greg chappell in this category as well.

for some players it is an obvious burden that it brings down their personal standards considerably. sachin tendulkar and ian botham were lesser players when they led their teams.

so..... yes. it does affect the individual's performance considerably. in team sports, captaining a cricket team must be the most challenging job.

the net worth of a player's career will be skewed by how long the captaincy stint lasted. ian botham's bad seasons as skipper dont sully his image as much as his fading years. but steve waugh's reputation is enhanced by his success as skipper. ponting, unfortunately, is going to be remembered less fondly than he deserves to be because of his teams losing in ashes and in india. that is because waugh and ponting led their teams for many years and are remembered as australian skippers while tendulkar and botham are merely great players who played under others most of the time, especially in the last few years of their careers.
quality post
 

Daemon

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Vaughan was a good captain yet his batting average as captain was well below his career average and miles below his average purely as a batsman.

Strauss has thrived and for a long time Ponting scored heavily before age caught up with him.

Every player is different though and people could come up with as many Botham's as they could Border's.
I wasn't referring to the captains own performances, was referring to the teams performance under that captain.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
I think it can. But it's too individual. My guess is that it probably affects bowlers more since they have to be out there thinking not only about their bowling plans but field settings and other bowlers, etc (plus they're more physically spent out on the field). Whereas a batting captain has time to 'think' more while fielding. Just a guess though, no idea if it works out that way in most cases.
 

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