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Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll

Who was the better Test cricketer: Imran or Sobers?


  • Total voters
    168

Uppercut

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at a slight tangent, while we are on the value of topic of experts's opinions of cricketers, i was wondering which experts are considered knowledgeable, and which complete buffoons....and no, smarty pants answers like 'those whose opinions match mine' are not what i am looking for!

for example, i would imagine a benaud's opinion would have more weight than those of a thomson, or even a hussain.
It depends on the reasoning behind their opinion. A strong argument refers to previously-expressed strong arguments of those best placed to comment. But obviously an opinion on its own doesn't constitute any evidence in favour of a conclusion. The greatest and most celebrated writings in any area are invariably those which challenge a status quo, and the more widely-held and ingrained the challenged opinion is, the better.
 

vcs

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cricinfo selected a XI. with marshall and lillee taking the newball and warne being the first choice spinner it makes better sense to bring in a left hander as the fourth bowler. and who better than akram (sorry davidson!) is there to do that job! even i was disappointed that hadlee, mcgrath and imran were ignored in the first XI. but akram completes the team better.

here we are comparing two players straight up. a lot of those experts who selected akram in that XI would probably go for imran if there was a head-to-head competition between them. because imran, indeed, was the superior cricketer of the two. here, they would go for sobers for the same reason.
Good point, thanks for elaborating and adding to what I said earlier. :) It's important to make a distinction between who is the better cricketer and who adds better balance to the team.
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
I disagree with bagapth and disagree with Lillee's selection too ahead of Hadlee but that's a completely different argument.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
sobers' strength was his batting and for imran it was his bowling. they both achieved equally great feats in their strong departments.

while gary wasnt a great bowler, his bowling - in my opinion - was better than imran's batting. i was never a fan of imran the batter; and please dont tell me he averaged over 50 for close to a decade because i saw most of it. his batting was pretty insipid throughout his career including his peak years. forget botham, i rate even kapil above him as a batsman. sobers on the other hand had more great moments as a bowler than imran as a batsman.

considering this marginal advantage i am happily handing over to sobers' bowling over imran's batting, and the fact that sir gary was probably the greatest all round fielder ever while imran was less than average in that department, it is quite obvious to me that sobers was the superior cricketer of the two.

in a "being john malkovich" inspired dream match between them, imran bowling to sobers would be an even contest and awesome to watch. but the 10 other imrans in the field would drop catches and chase the hits to the boundary instead of stopping them with dives. sobers bowling to imran would be slightly in favor of the bowler especially when the 10 sobers' in the field catch blinders anywhere in their vicinity.
Sober's fielding should be more than offset by Imran's captaincy I believe. Sobers wasn't such a great captain IIRC (some horrible declaration linked to him as well which cost WI the match from a very comfortable situation).
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
The batting of Khan roughly cancels out the bowling impact of Sobers. Khan doesn't quite make my top five greatest bowlers of all time.
I disagree, I rate Sobers' bowling higher than Imran's batting. I know it is hard to measure but if it came to picking, I will always pick Sobers' the bowler over Imran the Batsman.
 

bagapath

International Captain
Sober's fielding should be more than offset by Imran's captaincy I believe. Sobers wasn't such a great captain IIRC (some horrible declaration linked to him as well which cost WI the match from a very comfortable situation).
Had the match gone the other way the world would be calling sobers the greatest leader. He was an aggressive, positive, risk taking captain with a very good understanding of the game and his team mates. Though I don't consider captaincy as a factor here, there is no way sobers was tactically inferior to imran.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Very rarely have I watched a cricketer who received universal acclaim throughout his career and come away with the impression - "Nah, he was overrated.". So why should it be any different with Sobers?

I'd be interested to know from people who were avid cricket followers at the time - when Imran retired (and presumably the accolades and tributes were flowing), how many renowned cricket experts were willing to declare him the best allrounder ever?
For Sobers there was a period in his career where he was a wonderful all-rounder and people respect that - pretty much forgetting the rest of his career where his stats are rubbish. Also, in his time wickets per match and average were probably looked at more than SR so his bowling gets a lot of leeway.

Essentially, for me the numbers show he was overrated. Over a 20 year career that kind of praise should be quite vivid - it isn't IMO.

Then again, I have to admit I am judging him by the numbers and not having seen him. Maybe I would think different if I had watched him but I think that is a bit of a remote possibility. I think a cricketer has to at least be in the statistical vicinity for the acclaim he is given to make sense. Sobers' bowling is so far off that, that I just can't accept this fascination with him.


That depends on the trust you have on cricket experts though. 99% of these blokes honestly believe that Ricky Ponting and Tendulkar are better cricketers than Jaques Kallis and Shane Warne and Wasim Akram are better cricketers than Richard Hadlee. They hold an extremely subjective POV towards cricket which does not rate the cold value that a cricketer but rather bring in stuff like persona and influence, which I don't rate close to as much as what he actually did.

The Cricinfo XI was supposed to be selected by some of the supposedly most knowledgeable cricket experts in the world. They picked Wasim Akram for the spot of all-rounder(no less) over Imran Khan, Kieth Miller and Richard Hadlee. I consider it a downright moronic decision. Idc if they've watched more cricket than me, You just don't do that. When picking a XI, You pick the XI most likely to win you a game, not one where all the players have great memories and skill sets which will never be forgotten(yada yada yada)

How much weightage you give to the judgement of guys who hold opinions such as Akram>Imran/Miller/Hadlee depends from person to person. Personally, not very much.

/General rant not directly related to the poll in question
Did they do that though? I thought the reason the likes of Miller and Imran missed out is because they were only voted as all-rounders whereas Wasim was a viable option as a bowler - when the others weren't.

I have to say Imran probably is the most complete all-rounder.
Miller and Botham are probably more complete.
 
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hang on

State Vice-Captain
not sure how imran is the most complete all rounder when sobers was

1) one of the best batsmen of all time. could bat in any position.
2) could open the bowling and ball, when it took him, as fast as hall
3) could bowl quality spin
4) brilliant fielder, including close in

who has come even close to being as complete a cricketer?
 

Maximus0723

State Regular
That depends on the trust you have on cricket experts though. 99% of these blokes honestly believe that Ricky Ponting and Tendulkar are better cricketers than Jaques Kallis and Shane Warne and Wasim Akram are better cricketers than Richard Hadlee. They hold an extremely subjective POV towards cricket which does not rate the cold value that a cricketer but rather bring in stuff like persona and influence, which I don't rate close to as much as what he actually did.

The Cricinfo XI was supposed to be selected by some of the supposedly most knowledgeable cricket experts in the world. They picked Wasim Akram for the spot of all-rounder(no less) over Imran Khan, Kieth Miller and Richard Hadlee. I consider it a downright moronic decision. Idc if they've watched more cricket than me, You just don't do that. When picking a XI, You pick the XI most likely to win you a game, not one where all the players have great memories and skill sets which will never be forgotten(yada yada yada)

How much weightage you give to the judgement of guys who hold opinions such as Akram>Imran/Miller/Hadlee depends from person to person. Personally, not very much.

/General rant not directly related to the poll in question
Nah, in their calculations Wasim is not considered an all-rounder, which he isn't.

They wanted to limit their list to 1 all rounder and that was Sobers. So Sobers over Imran rather then what you mensioned.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Very rarely have I watched a cricketer who received universal acclaim throughout his career and come away with the impression - "Nah, he was overrated.". So why should it be any different with Sobers?
Heh, I use the same logic to arrive the complete opposite conclusion of not really caring about what people thought at the time. I regularly disagree with the general consensus about modern cricketers so there's every chance I would've disagreed back then too.

I mean, I don't think I've come across a cricketer regarded as world class who I thought was a actually a **** **** and should be dropped from his national team, but I don't think that about Sobers either. The rankings of the top twenty or so though differ greatly from my perspective, both in modern times of players I've followed closely and historically of players whose careers I've analysed.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
Had the match gone the other way the world would be calling sobers the greatest leader. He was an aggressive, positive, risk taking captain with a very good understanding of the game and his team mates. Though I don't consider captaincy as a factor here, there is no way sobers was tactically inferior to imran.
As you like to say that we must evaluate on facts so it is meaningless that had the match gone other way. His one big tactic did backfire miserably and his losses as captain are more than his wins. It can mean that he was tactically inferior. Also Imran took his and his team's performance to another level when he became captain. Can't say that about Sobers especially given that the number of wins in his captaincy is less than the number of losees IIRC. So definitely Imran gets much more points for captaincy IMO.
 

archie mac

International Coach
Had the match gone the other way the world would be calling sobers the greatest leader. He was an aggressive, positive, risk taking captain with a very good understanding of the game and his team mates. Though I don't consider captaincy as a factor here, there is no way sobers was tactically inferior to imran.

No one loves the six digit one more then the Mac.

Most of what I have read about Sobers the captain is that he could not understand why others could not perform like him on the cricket field:)

Still I agree he was not tactially inferior to Imran but maybe he did not have the man management skills of the Khan:)
 

Noble One

International Vice-Captain
To be named as captain of the World XI in 1971 shows the high regard that Garry Sobers was held in as a captain.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
To be named as captain of the World XI in 1971 shows the high regard that Garry Sobers was held in as a captain.
Even today Ricky Ponting might be named the captain of the World XI. I am not sure he is regarded very highly as a captain these days.
 

JBH001

International Regular
To be named as captain of the World XI in 1971 shows the high regard that Garry Sobers was held in as a captain.
That might have been more to do with the regard and esteem he was held in as a player. Although, that too is saying something in terms of how he was regarded by his contemporaries. But, for that matter, how successful was Imran as a captain? IIRC he won 14 test matches from 48 as captain - that is not an exceptional percentage, let alone a good one.
 

archie mac

International Coach
That might have been more to do with the regard and esteem he was held in as a player. Although, that too is saying something in terms of how he was regarded by his contemporaries. But, for that matter, how successful was Imran as a captain? IIRC he won 14 test matches from 48 as captain - that is not an exceptional percentage, let alone a good one.
His reputation seems to be based on one WC
 

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