What If........

[Rich2001]

In the last match of the season the title in D2 of the County Champ' came down to the wire between Worcs and Northants, who just happened to be playing each other.

Anyway after a "Un-sporting" Dec call from Worcs they sealed the title by 0.75 points. BUT in news just out Northants have just been deducted 8 points for a poor pitch, which in Northants defence didn't seem to bad. If a team can score 379/9 and 8 x 50's in the match - It can't be that great to bowl on bar the fact most wickets fell to spinners. But then again between both sides they played 5 spinners out of 9 bowlers (front line bowlers) So the amount of wickets to fall to spinners was always going to be high.

Now if Northants had sealed the title would the ECB had the guts to deduct and therfore take the title back from them???

[marc71178]

It's a tricky one.

There's been talk for a while that Northants pitch has been poor all season - so maybe a deduction was worthy, but also I think Worcestershire's declaration was disgusting and I don't see what the difference between that and the Somerset declaration at 1-0 off 1 over in a One Day game (when they were booted out)

[Neil Pickup]

Nothing wrong with either declaration IMO - the rules of the competition are there and that is what happened.

As for Northants, that pitch has been a shocker all season and they're lucky only to get 8 knocked off. It's the only reason they've been promoted.

[Rich2001]

Originally posted by Neil Pickup
Nothing wrong with either declaration IMO - the rules of the competition are there and that is what happened.

As for Northants, that pitch has been a shocker all season and they're lucky only to get 8 knocked off. It's the only reason they've been promoted.

I agree the rules are there and like I said ANY county captain would have done the same.

However I agree that the Northants pitch has been bad this season, but this game inparticular doesn't seem that bad, like I said if 8 players could get to 50 and a team score 379/9 it can't be that bad. And they didn't take like 2 days to get there the whole match was over in 3 days, like 3/4 of the CC this week, so scoring couldn't habe been that tough if they could score that quick

And when you make a spinners pitch and 5 out of the 9 bolwers in the match are spinners you shouldn't be surprised that most of the wickets fall to spinners, espically when more part time spinners bowl as well :rolleyes:

Earier in the season Kent won a County Championship match away at Notts Inside Two Days and there wasn't even a wisper of a poor pitch made!

[Neil Pickup]

Six spinners..

Panesar, Swann, Brown, Batty, Khalid, Hick

It was turning hugely from day one. I'm not sure how the penalties are imposed but Northants may have already been warned about preparing unfit tracks.

[Langeveldt]

I see nothing wrong with Worcestershires delcaration, there is nothing to say that its against the rules, and Northamptonshire should have done better prior to the game to be assured of the first place! Its their fault, worcs just used it to their advantage...

[chris.hinton]

Originally posted by marc71178
It's a tricky one.

There's been talk for a while that Northants pitch has been poor all season - so maybe a deduction was worthy, but also I think Worcestershire's declaration was disgusting and I don't see what the difference between that and the Somerset declaration at 1-0 off 1 over in a One Day game (when they were booted out)

How was it disgusting, i fail to see the problem Worcester wanted the title and got it. Somerset Declaration was horrible but there are no rules against Worcester doing it

[marc71178]

Originally posted by chris.hinton
How was it disgusting, i fail to see the problem Worcester wanted the title and got it. Somerset Declaration was horrible but there are no rules against Worcester doing it

The Somerset declaration was also within the rules, so what's the difference between the 2 - obviously in your eyes it's because one affected Worcester, and one benefitted them?

At the end of the day, Worcester were in a bad position (behind, deteriorating pitch, batting last on it) and their declaration was against the spirit of the game, hence I think it is wrong.

Had Northants got another 100 runs or so, and Worcester declared (all but ensuring defeat, but preventing Northants from the title) - would the reaction have been different?

[Langeveldt]

Originally posted by marc71178
and their declaration was against the spirit of the game, hence I think it is wrong.

True, but there is too much at stake to worry about playing within the spirit of the game these days, Im afraid it counts for sod all...

[Neil Pickup]

Originally posted by chris.hinton
How was it disgusting, i fail to see the problem Worcester wanted the title and got it. Somerset Declaration was horrible but there are no rules against Worcester doing it

There is no difference between them. Both teams reduced their chance of winning - no rules against it - to ensure the achievement of their objective. You have no leg to stand on.

Originally posted by marc71178
Had Northants got another 100 runs or so, and Worcester declared (all but ensuring defeat, but preventing Northants from the title) - would the reaction have been different?

They wouldn't have prevented Northants winning the title there, as Northants would have picked up the batting points that they failed to as it stood (196ao).

[marc71178]

Originally posted by Langeveldt
True, but there is too much at stake to worry about playing within the spirit of the game these days, Im afraid it counts for sod all...

But I still cannot see the difference between this game and the Somerset one - if one was punished, why wasn't the other?

[Bazza]

I was surprised when I saw Worcs declared there - seemes very strange, but once I found out the reason it all made sense. I don't have a problem with it personally.

As for this Somerset thing, have I missed something?

[marc71178]

In a One Day Group game about 25 years back, Brian Close declared on 1-0 off 1 over, since Somerset would go through so long as Worcestershire didn't beat them AND take more wickets than they did.

[Neil Pickup]

In the interests of factual accuracy, 24 years ago (1979) and Brian Rose.

Close retired at the end of the 1977 season, whilst Rose was tipped as a future England skipper until he made that declaration, which soiled his reputation and helped put the brakes on a Test Career that ended with 10 & 5 at Port-of-Spain in February 1981.

[marc71178]

Sorry

I thought it sounded a Close-like move, and the similarity of surnames confused me!

Still don't see how it's any different from this week's actions.