Is Steyn as deadly as Lillee?

[robelinda]

Hands up who has actually seen that series in Pakistan in 1980? Not everything can be gleaned from a look at a scorecard. Didnt Imran Khan refuse to play because the pitches were just TOO flat? Ridiculous pitches, pathetic viewing. Both sides barely tried.

 

[Cevno]

Don't Worry. You'll learn with time that it's blasphemy to criticize Lillee, Warne or Pointing. But bear in mind that it's only the Tendulkar fans who are hyper sensitive.

So true.

And the criticism that they get is nothing compared to the pedantic issues that Tendulkar gets criticised for.

 

[TT Boy]

NZ has always had green tops though. Certainly between 2002 and 2006 there were some ridiculously flat English and Australian decks and that has changed significantly over the past 4 years or so.

For the past 4 years at least, the wickets in NZ have been slow roads. Even the 3 day test at Hamilton last week was played on a flat deck.

 

[Burgey]

actually steyn was rusty and not fully fit. Nothing like that for Lillee in that Pak tour. Read my post regarding that series in Pak as well.

Besides there is a difference between averaging 46 in a 2 test series to averaging 100+ in a 3 test series

One bad test. By bad I mean Hilf bad

 

[Burgey]

Hands up who has actually seen that series in Pakistan in 1980? Not everything can be gleaned from a look at a scorecard. Didnt Imran Khan refuse to play because the pitches were just TOO flat? Ridiculous pitches, pathetic viewing. Both sides barely tried.

There was that great moment before one of them when two decks were prepared, one greener than the other. In an attempt to have the groundsman use the green one, Lillee spectacularly feigned a back injury at practice the day before and was carried from the ground. Didn't work!

 

[abmk]

Hands up who has actually seen that series in Pakistan in 1980? Not everything can be gleaned from a look at a scorecard. Didnt Imran Khan refuse to play because the pitches were just TOO flat? Ridiculous pitches, pathetic viewing. Both sides barely tried.

Haven't seen that series. The first test was low-scoring :

225,292,140,76/3

second and third tests were high scoring

imran played in the 1st and 3rd tests

2/28 in the first innings of the 1st test
2/86 in the first innings of the 3rd test and 2/30 in the 2nd innings

that's 6 wickets @ 24 !

 

[Cevno]

Steyn has the best strike of all time.

Is he as deadly as Lillee? He is even more deadlier ,tbh.

I know seeing him hit around on occasion by the likes of Sehwag,Sachin it seems at present he is not great and there is a image in mosts mind about the best bowler ever being Someone who was absolutely unplayable every time ,there is always a case of romantacising the past.

There is a case of remembering only the highs of the past players and not remembering when they were also hit around the park on occasions. And so comes the thought surely someone who we have watched live struggle cannot be greater than the bowler 30 years ago about whom we have read fables about?
So hence,come the silly excuses like there not being other fast bowlers around and so on.

 

[robelinda]

No doubt Imran was a magnificent bowler, criminally underrated. I would have him so far ahead of Kallis as the best all rounder ever.

 

[Teja.]

No doubt Imran was a magnificent bowler, criminally underrated. I would have him so far ahead of Kallis as the best all rounder ever.

In terms of value added to the side, I'd have him right after Bradman in the post 1920 period tbh.

 

[tooextracool]

For the past 4 years at least, the wickets in NZ have been slow roads. Even the 3 day test at Hamilton last week was played on a flat deck.

Its hard to see how the wickets when England toured in 2008 were roads to be honest, and I would say the same about some of the wickets Pakistan played on. Im sure there were some roads in the India series and the WI series though.

 

[robelinda]

In terms of value added to the side, I'd have him right after Bradman in the post 1920 period tbh.

Amen.

 

[Migara]

I agree with this. Since 2007 we've seen some seriously competitive bowling conditions, especially in South Africa, England and even Australia. Dont think the flat track stuff is relevant for Steyn, certainly not as it was for McGrath.

We never get credit for preparing bowling friendly tracks. Other than for SSC, all other SL grounds are unkind for batsmen. Especially Dambulla.

 

[Burgey]

Steyn has the best strike of all time.

Is he as deadly as Lillee? He is even more deadlier ,tbh.

I know seeing him hit around on occasion by the likes of Sehwag,Sachin it seems at present he is not great and there is a image in mosts mind about the best bowler ever being Someone who was absolutely unplayable every time ,there is always a case of romantacising the past.

There is a case of remembering only the highs of the past players and not remembering when they were also hit around the park on occasions. And so comes the thought surely someone who we have watched live struggle cannot be greater than the bowler 30 years ago about whom we have read fables about?
So hence,come the silly excuses like there not being other fast bowlers around and so on.

What if you watched them both live?

They're not dissimilar btw, in terms of method. Steyn now is certainly faster than Lillee from say WSC onwards (without being scientific with these things). Lillee developed these crazy leg cutters and off cutters as well as he got older. Good thing about Steyn is he's still growing and learning as a bowler.

If Steyn hangs about for a few years more at a similar level (not even as good as he is now) he'll likely go down as an all timer IMO. That's just a personal view of mine, in that to be rated that highly I think longevity is important.

 

[Cevno]

In terms of value added to the side, I'd have him right after Bradman in the post 1920 period tbh.

Just out of interest,where will you have Kapil Dev in terms of value added to the side?

 

[akilana]

Just out of interest,where will you have Kapil Dev in terms of value added to the side?

before Bradman

 

[robelinda]

Gotta say, never rated Kapil Dev at all. Never impressed me a whole lot, i know thats bad!!!! Always rated Imran ahead of all the all rounders at the time ( Botham, Hadlee etc). I'm probably all wrong but i always thought of Kapil as a poor mans Imran.

 

[JBH001]

Don't Worry. You'll learn with time that it's blasphemy to criticize Lillee, Warne or Pointing. But bear in mind that it's only the Tendulkar fans who are hyper sensitive.

 

[TT Boy]

We never get credit for preparing bowling friendly tracks. Other than for SSC, all other SL grounds are unkind for batsmen. Especially Dambulla.

Even Galle, where a ropey Windies put 550+ on Sri Lanka and Gayle got 300?

 

[Teja.]

Just out of interest,where will you have Kapil Dev in terms of value added to the side?

I dunno. Somewhere with Botham after Imran, Sobers, Miller, Hadlee, Kallis and Pollock and Murali but before Gavaskar, Chappell, McG, Tendulkar, Akram et al.

Kapil's extraordinariness lies in his fitness and his ability to bowl and bat for so long at a good level without any significant lows or injuries, if at a lesser level of greatness than some other all-rounders but with much better fitness. Unfortunately my assesment of player's greatness does not take fitness thaat much into account unless in freak cases like Bond and Asif.

 

[JBH001]

Kapil under-rated to my mind, with bat and ball. The man's batting SR was 80+. That is phenomenal.

I'd seriously consider him over Imran as an all-rounder in my side, except for Imran's bowling (and possibly his captaincy) swinging it.