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England can beat India "every day of week": Gough

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
And frankly, every time India prepare flat tracks, the Indian fast (and spin) bowlers bitch and moan....and rightly so.

I find it funny that anyone would think that the bowlers would prefer to bowl on Indian tracks (the flat ones) - home advantage or not.
 

Dissector

International Debutant
If Zaheer played for England, I think he would have become an ATG bowler. Not just the pitches but the benefit of playing county cricket much earlier in his life.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Do cringe when I read stuff like this. Wasn't so very long ago Dazzler was forceasting 4-0 in the Ashes and look what happened at the WACA.

I'd say we start as marginal favourites in home conditions, but in Zaheer India have a bowler who could've been genetically engineered to exploit English conditions and (hey) their batting's ok too.

The potential for egg on face is pretty sizeable IMHO.
To be completely honest, a bit of trash talk is nice to see.. It will be fun to see India and England being the top dogs in cricket for a while.. Tired of Windies, Oz and RSA tbh. :)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I actually think England are a very very good side.. Still don't see them being good enough to beat "any" team every day of the week... But they are becoming a darned good side for sure...


And love Strauss and Andy Flowers.. WAGs :)
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Look at Johnson's home and away averages.

Do the same for the rest.

A bowler learns primarily how to bowl in the conditions they have to play in.
Not even that.

Look at Warne and McGrath's home and away averages post 2000 and tell me that Australian bowlers have it easy at home.

OK, Indian pitches tend to be a bit flat. However, a) I don't recall bagging any Indian (or SC for that matter) batsman for doing well at home. b) Regardless of whether Indian pitches are flat, they're Zaheer's home conditions, I'd expect him to be able to do well in India. I'll give him props for an outstanding year at home against good batting lineups, of course I will, but Zaheer averaging 20 at home isn't better than Anderson or Steyn averaging 20 at home just because "Zaheer's home decks are flat." If anything, Zaheer deserves extra credit for being able to bowl well in South Africa and England, because the decks he gets there require a different skillset that he shouldn't be used to.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Well I don't see you as "Substantial favourites". Unhelpful pitches and a **** bowling attack against our batsmen won't see you win too many, no matter how many runs you make.

You were a correct lbw decision away from drawing to Australia at home, who we've then gone and comprehensively outplayed in their backyard.
obviously forgetting that it took a "wrong" decision for us to be in that place and away from an easier 2 wicket win...
 

vcs

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To be completely honest, a bit of trash talk is nice to see.. It will be fun to see India and England being the top dogs in cricket for a while.. Tired of Windies, Oz and RSA tbh. :)
England and their press will be unbearable if they ever get to No. 1 :ph34r: ... much as India are to the rest of the world right now, I imagine.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Technically we were 2 wickets away from that scoreline, one in each Test.
Small difference in the fact that when South Africa were in that situation they couldn't get us out... Australia were illegitimately denied a wicket which would've won them the Test and drawn the series when they had India 9 down.
illegitimately based on what? Your stupid as **** whining? Rules state you are only out when the umpires give you out... What the heck is illegitimate about that?
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Another example, Hilf is more suited to English conditions compared to Australian conditions.
Hilf isn't garbage in Australia though, otherwise he wouldn't get picked.

My stance on subcontinental fast bowlers is simply that it's lazy to assume that all SC tracks are roads and unfriendly to bowl pace on. If that were the case then why does every single fast bowler who might be considered a great (Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Shoaib, Kapil, Vaas) bowl better at home than away?
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Don't think I said there was a series happening right now.
we are debating about the current England side would fare against the current India side if they were to play a match now though.
Try the sims, Marcuss.. For once you "might" just get the results you like to see.. :p



Gotta say, I apologize if I am overly aggressive in my posting here, but I have often said I am a "massive" England fan now in cricket esp. because of some of the absolute gun posters from England here on CW.. And I see none of them seem to have posted since the first page.. And Marcuss is enough to single handedly have me almost alter my love for this current English side.



But still Flower/Strauss/KP/Swanneh > all.. :)
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Should be lots of love for Marcuss' posts then, GF? :p
Why?

As much as what Steyn/Harris Vs Anderson/Swann got to do with a thread on India V England... :ph34r:
Try reading the original tone of the thread. I'd be amazed if you could actually pick up the tone of a thread when you're quoting random posts, but hey, a guy can dream.

Try the sims, Marcuss.. For once you "might" just get the results you like to see.. :p



Gotta say, I apologize if I am overly aggressive in my posting here, but I have often said I am a "massive" England fan now in cricket esp. because of some of the absolute gun posters from England here on CW.. And I see none of them seem to have posted since the first page.. And Marcuss is enough to single handedly have me almost alter my love for this current English side.



But still Flower/Strauss/KP/Swanneh > all.. :)
Don't apologise for your overly aggressive nature, apologise for your spasticated style of posting. Then we might get along.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
After me bullying EWS relentlessly for months, I am very thankful for him in this thread. It's probably because he has the neutral perspective but I've agreed with nearly everything he's said here.

Now I don't know why everyone needs to get so uppity about something Darren Gough said. If it was Jimmy Anderson who'd said it (for example), then, yeah, fair enough. But also, it's clearly just hyperbole from Goughy; he thinks we can win the series in the summer, and guess what? So do I.

Now onto a selection of comments that I took issue with. Sorry for this, but I don't feel much like biting my tongue today.



The bolded statement is such nonsense. Your basically shortening the batting line-up by one versus arguably the longest batting line-up in the world. But sure, India only need five batsmen to be better than England, we don't currently have any batsmen ploughing runs all over the show or anything; we don't have the batsman with the second highest average in the history of Test cricket batting #3 for us after all. Oh wait, we do. Batting may not be our strong suit and obviously India's is fantastic, but you ignore the fundamentals of team sport with such statements.



Well we don't have the series won yet, but let's jump ahead and assume we will (which is a big assumption, but still). Tell me, if India went to Australia and won, what would you think? You wouldn't see it as a huge achievement if their ranking was low?

Such nonsense, who cares where the Aussies are ranked? They've lost one Test series at home in about fifteen years. Any side would kill to win there. If we finish the deal, it's massive, and yeah, we will make a lot out of it.

If India manage to win in Australia next time you go over there, I'll be sure to check the rankings and bring it up when you all crow about it. 8-)





These are true, but it's hardly relevant to who would win a series if it were to be played now, and even more so to a series in England



Possibly your worst ever post SS.

Steyn is the best pacer in the world, pretty much accepted as a consensus. Anderson is second. Perhaps less of a consensus but you've got to clutch straws pretty hard to get away from it. Now this doesn't mean that there isn't a gap between them - there is - but as someone else (Furball?) said - it's the difference between being ATG and world-class.

Swann is the best spinner in the world. Inescapable. Harris is not all that good, really. Not as good as Nathan Hauritz, who is deemed not good enough for Australia's spin slot. That's a big bloody gap.

If you think the gap is bigger between Steyn and Anderson than the spinners, you're either smoking something or you just don't understand and respect spin bowling enough to atcually have a decent opinion on the matter.



Last I heard, one wicket can't lose you two matches at once. Nonetheless, we actually survived those games through batting, not weather. Not like a certain series I've seen India fans bring up ad nauseam in the last three and a half years. It doesn't matter, India beat us 1-0 in 07 and that's that, but if you want to try and go down that route, well, just don't.
Respect the Flintoff fanboy...


I think the series will be close wherever it is played between India and England.. Obviously, the home teams will start as favorites but it should not be any great surprise if the tourists win either series.. The teams are close and well balanced. What we need to do though is wait and watch how Tremlett, Finn, and Bresnan and Broad shape up now... It is just too early to say they are good or bad at this stage.. And there is a slight chance that they could get carried away with an Ashes win AGAIN...
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I think the series will be close wherever it is played between India and England.. Obviously, the home teams will start as favorites but it should not be any great surprise if the tourists win either series.. The teams are close and well balanced. What we need to do though is wait and watch how Tremlett, Finn, and Bresnan and Broad shape up now... It is just too early to say they are good or bad at this stage.. And there is a slight chance that they could get carried away with an Ashes win AGAIN...
First off, we don't need to watch how 4 bowlers go when only 2 of them will play Tests at any time.

Second, quite clearly an Ashes win won't go to this side's head, seeing as we achieved it 18 months ago.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Which says everything about the weaknesses in India's attack. Zaheer doesn't play and your bowling goes to ****.

England have played 3 different attacks in 4 Tests and have bowled Australia out for 481, 245, 304, 268, 309, 98 and 258. That's a pretty huge argument for the respective strength of England's attack.
Waiting to see your boys perform without Anderson first... I think it is easy to dismiss how crucial "the top" bowler is.. We may have gone equally well with Munaf and Agarkar instead of Ishant and Sree here.. The point is that the numero uno bowler is the one who makes the difference.
 

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