Rahul Dravid and Ricky Ponting 2007 Onwards

[honestbharani]

I agree completely. I think he'd be less affected if he wasn't captain and could just concentrate on his batting.

He is really NOT a good captain, AFAIC... But he is an all timer as a batsman. And Australia have to start thinking that way... What they gain from him as a batsman will more than offset whatever the losses maybe due to him not being captain, and I don't think there will be much in the first place. They can even go to someone like Hussey as a stop gap if they want, like India did with Kumble while allowing Dhoni to cement his place as a player and a leader in the test side.

 

[Jono]

I do agree that Ponting looks less "past it" than Dravid.

Doesn't really matter at the end of the day if the results are the same though.

Ponting obviously also burdened with captaincy.

 

[Ikki]

He is really NOT a good captain, AFAIC... But he is an all timer as a batsman. And Australia have to start thinking that way... What they gain from him as a batsman will more than offset whatever the losses maybe due to him not being captain, and I don't think there will be much in the first place. They can even go to someone like Hussey as a stop gap if they want, like India did with Kumble while allowing Dhoni to cement his place as a player and a leader in the test side.

I disagree, I think he is a good captain but won't go down as a great one. I think if his side were not as dominating as they'd been in the decade and a half prior it'd be a different kind of pressure. Rightly or wrongly, Australians expect to be in the same position, despite having almost an entirely different team. I think that in turn it has attributed to more conservatism and trying to reduce the failure to stop the backlash rather than being a bit adventurous. I think that is because he is still captain that people still link the team with the one he lead in the past. So I agree that him stepping down may not only release the pressure on him but everyone else.

 

[Spark]

He is really NOT a good captain, AFAIC... But he is an all timer as a batsman. And Australia have to start thinking that way... What they gain from him as a batsman will more than offset whatever the losses maybe due to him not being captain, and I don't think there will be much in the first place. They can even go to someone like Hussey as a stop gap if they want, like India did with Kumble while allowing Dhoni to cement his place as a player and a leader in the test side.

Ummm I would rather not go to Hussey as captain. Something about him just doesn't click as captain as we tend to lose everything we play under him.

Lack of alternatives a real pressing issue. Katich is probably the best option, but age and fitness. Clarke has form and injury worries to get over first, and then there's the question over whether the public will actually accept him as captain. Hussey - as above. Haddin - possibly?

 

[Ikki]

I hear White is good captaincy material? He could also take over North's spot with ease IMO. Excellent slip fielder too.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Ponting is still a man the oposition fear, he is the prize wicket. Just look at the celebration when England got him first ball the other day. He may not be the player he was but he is still clearly one of the best 6 players in Australia, not sure you can say the same about Dravid in India.

 

[Bun]

Ponting is still a man the oposition fear, he is the prize wicket. Just look at the celebration when England got him first ball the other day. He may not be the player he was but he is still clearly one of the best 6 players in Australia, not sure you can say the same about Dravid in India.

That has got to do more with their teammates. Personally I think the respective threat levels are similar for both players. Champions both, but a little over the hill.

 

[Spark]

I hear White is good captaincy material? He could also take over North's spot with ease IMO. Excellent slip fielder too.

Good replacement but there are better IMO. Still, wouldn't object too strongly, and we could really use a decent slip fielder right now.

 

[honestbharani]

Ponting is still a man the oposition fear, he is the prize wicket. Just look at the celebration when England got him first ball the other day. He may not be the player he was but he is still clearly one of the best 6 players in Australia, not sure you can say the same about Dravid in India.

Obviously Dravid is one of the best 6 batsmen in INdia.. What are you on about?

 

[honestbharani]

I disagree, I think he is a good captain but won't go down as a great one. I think if his side were not as dominating as they'd been in the decade and a half prior it'd be a different kind of pressure. Rightly or wrongly, Australians expect to be in the same position, despite having almost an entirely different team. I think that in turn it has attributed to more conservatism and trying to reduce the failure to stop the backlash rather than being a bit adventurous. I think that is because he is still captain that people still link the team with the one he lead in the past. So I agree that him stepping down may not only release the pressure on him but everyone else.

Well, it is a matter of opinion and judging captaincy is something so subjective anyways...


But I do think, regardless of whether Punter was any good as a captain, it is now time for Australia to think of a move on. That will really help Punter the most, I think.



Now that I have said that, watch him score a century tomm.

 

[Ruckus]

Shows how good punty is in an avg side and how much being part of atg side helped his batting.

This post makes me physically angry.

 

[Xuhaib]

Reflex argument is over-rated, it won't start to deteriorate before a really old age. Players just lose form and don't have the determination and motivation to regain it near the end of their careers.

loss in your reflexes is absolutely normal for any human body usually average joe does not feel a significant loss till he hits his 50 as long as he keeps himself fit but even a half step loss is aboslutley vital and very noticeable for a professional sportsman.

 

[Xuhaib]

This post makes me physically angry.

tbh thats spot on.Last year Yousuf looked in imperious touch during the Australian tour but being part of a **** batting line up and having to captain them never allowed him to get the big scores.

 

[TumTum]

loss in your reflexes is absolutely normal for any human body usually average joe does not feel a significant loss till he hits his 50 as long as he keeps himself fit but even a half step loss is aboslutley vital and very noticeable for a professional sportsman.

Agree with your point that professional athletes are different than the average joe, but I still don't believe reflexes start to deteriorate just before the age of 40.

In fact you can say that professional athletes with their intense training regimes can keep their reflexes sharper for longer.

 

[Spark]

tbh thats spot on.Last year Yousuf looked in imperious touch during the Australian tour but being part of a **** batting line up and having to captain them never allowed him to get the big scores.

That's a different argument though. That's "good batsman weighed down by the pressures of captaincy and an average side" which most would agree with wrt Ponting to some extent.

Not "mediocre batsman carried on the shoulders of an ATG side" which is AK's "argument"

 

[Ruckus]

That's a different argument though. That's "good batsman weighed down by the pressures of captaincy and an average side" which most would agree with wrt Ponting to some extent.

Not "mediocre batsman carried on the shoulders of an ATG side" which is AK's "argument"

yeah exactly.

 

[Ruckus]

Agree with your point that professional athletes are different than the average joe, but I still don't believe reflexes start to deteriorate just before the age of 40.

In fact you can say that professional athletes with their intense training regimes can keep their reflexes sharper for longer.

I agree with you here. Think problems of declining form seen in many older batsmen are probably to do with 'mental' issues like being burnt out or lacking confidence for some reason. If they were to do with reflexes, then surely that would mean a player like Ponting would simply never be able to time shots properly again. Yet there have been many occasions where in an entire innings he will be at peak form - e.g. like the recent 50 he made in the Ashes.

 

[Himannv]

Can't believe in declining form of batsmen due to age. Just look at Tendulkar. The man just keeps on going and remotivating himself. Unbelieveable.

Perhaps the problem is fitness but most likely the problem is in the mind.

 

[Ikki]

Agree with your point that professional athletes are different than the average joe, but I still don't believe reflexes start to deteriorate just before the age of 40.

In fact you can say that professional athletes with their intense training regimes can keep their reflexes sharper for longer.

I disagree. From my own experiences in football (you may question it's relevance) physical degradation starts earlier than your 40s. I think facing 140+kph bowling will take it's toll and even very slight delays in reactions will affect a batsman's game. Of course, people are different and it depends how well they look after themselves. Whether that is Ponting's problem I doubt as I think it's a mental problem as he is making some dumb decisions while looking in good touch.

Not sure so much about Dravid; what do people think his problem has been? Has Test cricket worn him out to an extent or is it mental?

 

[vcs]

The problem Dravid has is he has always been reliant on his incredible powers of concentration to grind bowlers down before he can build big innings and you cannot keep up that standard forever. Having said that, he looked good in the recent series vs. NZ, we will need him at his best in SA.