View Poll Results: Greatest All-Rounder including captaincy

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  • WW Armstrong

    2 4.55%
  • R. Benaud

    2 4.55%
  • A. Border

    0 0%
  • T. Goddard

    0 0%
  • WG Grace

    0 0%
  • T. Greig

    0 0%
  • W. Hammond

    0 0%
  • R. Illingworth

    0 0%
  • Imran Khan

    34 77.27%
  • G. Sobers

    2 4.55%
  • S. Waugh

    2 4.55%
  • Other - please specify

    2 4.55%
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Thread: Greatest All-rounder if captaincy were to be included

  1. #31
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    When did Dhoni start bowling in ODI's?
    He's a keeper the last time I checked. Keepers are all rounders too.
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  2. #32
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Yeah, it is. But it still makes them an excellent wicketkeeper-batsman in my books.

    An all-round game includes bowling, and most all-rounders have to bat and bowl to a certain standard. What if a guy is an excellent first slip as well as a great batsman? Or an good second slip and an excellent batsman?

    Everybody has to field, but I think it's the extra time you put into all the disciplines that makes you an all-rounder.

    How about we just all agree to call the wicket-keepers who are great batsmen 'pac-men'? They're almost round, but there's a bit missing.

    That's pretty innovative
    What makes you think that all round = batting + bowling only? All rounder is one who can be selected to a team purely on more than one discipline. Fielding and batting of course everybody should do and it's not a specialized job as bowling or keeping. Fielder + Batsman + Keeper OR Bowler = all rounder in my book. AFAIK, there are only few "ALL" rounders. Dilshan and Taibu are two of them who does all four jobs with some success.

  3. #33
    International Vice-Captain Dasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Yeah I know, it's one I don't agree with

    Being a slightly better batsman than what was the norm years ago still doesn't make you an all-rounder in my opinion. It's not 'innovative', it's just a bloke who bats well too. Gilly helped change the demands on how good a batsman your wicket-keeper should be. Don't see it as turning them into 'all-rounders' though.

    How does someone who never bowls have an 'all-round' game?

    Why can't Ponting be called an 'all-rounder' because he fields brilliantly then?

    As much as I'd love to see Gilly and some of the other keepers bowl, they're not all-rounders as far as I'm concerned. Don't think they need a special name to justify how good they are.
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  4. #34
    International Captain kingkallis's Avatar
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    Bob Simpson is not considered an all-rounder? From what I have read and seen [ as a coach ] Bob must be a contender as well.
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  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    He's a keeper the last time I checked. Keepers are all rounders too.
    Nah, they're not.

    All-rounders only being more than one discipline is something someone made up to include their favourite player in the category. An all-rounder is someone who performs the main disciplines of the game to a proficient level (ie: batting and bowling). Calling a keeper an 'all-rounder' sounds like something Mark Nicholas has done.
    Last edited by Son Of Coco; 16-10-2010 at 03:23 AM.
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  6. #36
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    That's why I think all keepers should be forced to bowl at least one over a match.

  7. #37
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Really got the inswing going, MSD.

    I think I agree with cokes on keepers generally tho. Not quite all-rounders for my quid, although if you add in competent captaincy (which lets out Dhoni, I'm afraid) I suppose one might stretch a point.

    I think the key point for keepers is that, no matter how great a keeper they are, they won't be selected for it alone without some batting chops. A keeper might be sufficiently dire to be dropped for being plop behind the stumps (hi Matty), but the days of keepers batting #9 or below are gonesville. Both Oz and England have better keepers than their current test custodians (Manou & Foster respectively), but no-one even seriously advocates them because Haddin's & Prior's batting is so superior.
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  8. #38
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Dhoni's captaincy has moved from overrated to underrated on CW I reckon. A few odd field placements have made others forget his achievements over the last 24 months.
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  9. #39
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Yeah, and it's poor decisions in Tests that have led to criticisms of his ODI captaincy.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcuss View Post
    Yeah, and it's poor decisions in Tests that have led to criticisms of his ODI captaincy.
    Ponting is also in the same boat FWIW.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Dhoni's captaincy has moved from overrated to underrated on CW I reckon. A few odd field placements have made others forget his achievements over the last 24 months.
    True. Dhoni is probably the best Indian captain I have seen over the years. He seems to have a Midas touch. Although I always get the feeling that he is just about to lose his golden touch. But it doesn't go away .........

    But yeah of late his captaincy has been under fire somewhat unfairly I thought.

  12. #42
    School Boy/Girl Captain Tom 1972's Avatar
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    sobers, then daylight, then the rest

    You're kidding aren't you?
    Sobers


    daylight



    the rest


    If the poll is about the best allrounder when considering captaincy as a discipline, then it is Sobers by a country mile. He's probably in the top handful or batsmen of all time let alone taking loads of wickets with various bowling styles.

    Sobers (Khan):
    Test Batting average a shade under 58. (37)
    Bowling average a shade over 34. (22)

    Captaincy record:
    Sobers: 39 Tests, 8 wins, 10 losses, 20 draws. (48 Tests, 14 wins, 8 losses, 26 draws.)

    Bowled spin (orthadox and chinaman), medium-fast.
    Great fielder anywhere.
    Held batting record of 365.
    6 6s in an over.
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    Last edited by Tom 1972; 16-10-2010 at 08:24 PM.

  13. #43
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom 1972 View Post
    You're kidding aren't you?
    Sobers


    daylight



    the rest


    If the poll is about the best allrounder when considering captaincy as a discipline, then it is Sobers by a country mile. He's probably in the top handful or batsmen of all time let alone taking loads of wickets with various bowling styles.

    Sobers (Khan):
    Test Batting average a shade under 58. (37)
    Bowling average a shade over 34. (22)

    Captaincy record:
    Sobers: 39 Tests, 8 wins, 10 losses, 20 draws. (48 Tests, 14 wins, 8 losses, 26 draws.)

    Bowled spin (orthadox and chinaman), medium-fast.
    Great fielder anywhere.
    Held batting record of 365.
    6 6s in an over.
    Voted by 90/100 selectors as a cricketer of the century. (Bradman recieved 100 votes, Jack Hobbs (30 votes), Shane Warne (27 votes) and Sir Vivian Richards (25 votes) were the others chosen.)
    I don't anybody is kidding here.

    Sobers: 8 wins and 10 Losses????? How is this captaincy record good? He has lost more matches than he has won.

    Are you sure that is not a typo?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son Of Coco View Post
    Nah, they're not.

    All-rounders only being more than one discipline is something someone made up to include their favourite player in the category. An all-rounder is someone who performs the main disciplines of the game to a proficient level (ie: batting and bowling). Calling a keeper an 'all-rounder' sounds like something Mark Nicholas has done.

    Um no. An allrounder is someone who would be picked regardless of his proficiency in the other discipline. I he would be picked as a batsman if he didn't bowl, and vice versa.

  15. #45
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Then Shaun Pollock, Andrew Flintoff and Shane Watson are not allrounders, because they would not be chosen for certain disciplines if they lost the other.

    Pollock would never have been picked as a specialist bat, and for much of Freddy's career, neither would he.

    Watson would most definitely not be picked as a specialist bowler.

    That's an extreme definition of allrounder. It's more the definition of an all-time great allrounder.

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