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Thread: Sachin's stats against ATG Fast Bowlers

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    Sachin's stats against ATG Fast Bowlers

    In another thread, one user posted modest stats of Viv Richards against Pakistan and Australia, and claimed him to be over-rated. I have applied similar logic to Sachin Tendulkar's career. The results are quite damning. Do the stats of all great batsmen fall spectacularly (like Sachin's) against truly great fast bowlers?

    <From that Post>

    In Tests, Sachin averages a modest 36.77 against Australia when McGrath plays.

    It is very noticeable that most of his Test runs/stellar performances against Australia have invariably come only when McGrath was absent, basically against second rate (good, but not great) fast bowlers like Brett Lee, Mitchell Johnson, Kasper, Damien Fleming, Paul Riefel etc. Whenever McGrath is absent from the Australian attack, Sachin's average almost doubles (averages nearly 70 against Australia when McGrath is absent!!!).


    Against other great fast bowlers whom he faced at the peak of their powers in Test Match cricket, Sachin averages a pathetic 32 against South Africa whenever Allan Donald has played.

    I really don't know whether to include Wasim Akram here since India-Pak never played a series for nearly 10 years (between 1989 to 99 for political reasons) during which Akram was at his absolute peak. But Akram bowled very very well in 1999 when they played each other. In any case, Tendulkar averages an equally pathetic 32 against Pakistan whenever Wasim Akram has played.

    Once again, he revelled against the respective teams (South Africa and Pakistan) when these bowlers were absent.

    Against the 3 greatest fast bowlers of his era, whom he faced in more than one Test series, McGrath, Donald and Akram, Sachin has scored 1719 Test runs at a modest average of 34.3 (compared to his career average of 56).


    Here is the clincher:

    Of all the Test series Sachin has played against these great fast bowlers (McGrath,Donald,Akram), more than 7 series including home and away, only once did he average more than 50 in a series!, that too just barely, when he averaged 50.66 against McGrath in 2000-01 series at home in India. Even more stunning is the fact that only once was he India's best batsman in all the Test series against these bowlers (so much for him being the batting mainstay of India against great attacks). This is the very definition of being over-rated.

    The only truly great fast bowler Sachin has had some success against is Curtly Ambrose. But Sachin never faced Ambrose (or the West Indian attack) at their peak. He played only one Test series against Ambrose, that too in 1997, on the dead pitches of the Carribbean (4 of the 5 Tests ended in draws). Ambrose was 35 years old and couple of years away from retirement back then.


    Amazingly, the trend of Tendulkar's poor stats against great fast bowlers continues in ODIs. In spite of all the batsmen-favoured rules and pitches, Sachin's stats against these bowlers in ODIs are equally pathetic! A measly average of 31 (2222 runs @ 31.64) in ODIs after playing 70+ ODIs against McGrath/Donald/Akram. Only 2 of Sachin's ODI hundreds came against these bowlers (both against McGrath in the sub-continent). In 26 ODI innings against Donald, Sachin managed to cross fifty just 3 times!

  2. #2
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    It's official. Pietersen>>>Tendulkar.
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    International Captain weldone's Avatar
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    Yeah, Marcus North>Tendulkar
    "I want to raise my hand and say one thing. Those who complain about my love for the game or commitment to the game are clueless. These are the only 2 areas where I give myself 100 out of 100."
    - Sachin Tendulkar, as told in an interview published in Bengali newspaper Anandabazar Patrika after his 100th International century (translated by weldone)

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    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
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    Hence why none of his innings were included in wisden's top 100. There's probably 2 or 3 now though that would be included. I wish they would update that list, interesting stuff indeed.

    rediff.com: cricket channel: Top 100 Batsmen of all time

    Before that list came out I used to have to tell people how much I admired Taylor's 144 in 91, the list says all I need to. Mark waugh's 116 in 97 was magnificent too.


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    Batsman In Averaging Less Against Great Bowlers Shocker

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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    North uber alles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robelinda View Post
    Hence why none of his innings were included in wisden's top 100. There's probably 2 or 3 now though that would be included. I wish they would update that list, interesting stuff indeed.

    rediff.com: cricket channel: Top 100 Batsmen of all time

    Before that list came out I used to have to tell people how much I admired Taylor's 144 in 91, the list says all I need to. Mark waugh's 116 in 97 was magnificent too.
    Yes I remember Taylor had a very good series against Windies in 91. IIRC, a hundred and 3 or 4 fifties in that series. Back then I used to follow most Test matches against Windies (making note of which batsmen were successful against their formidable pace attack).

    How come Wisden missed out on Gilchrist's spectacular (at almost run-a-ball) 149* against Akram/Younis/Akhtar/Saqlain in 1999 at Hobart? He walked in when Aussies were tottering at 125 for 6 and chasing 360+ in the fourth innings, he was the last recognized batsman, it was his debut Test series (just 2nd Test match of his career) against a very formidable attack. He batted as if it was a club level match. Spanking all the great bowlers to all parts of the ground. It was good clean hitting. It was easily the greatest Test innings I have followed.
    2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Hobart, Nov 18-22, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

    One of the very few instances in Test match cricket where great fast bowlers were dominated on a decent pitch in the fourth innings, that too under great pressure.

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    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    So now we have posters registering to Criticise Sachin?

    And people call his fans over the top.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaican View Post
    In another thread, one user posted modest stats of Viv Richards against Pakistan and Australia, and claimed him to be over-rated. I have applied similar logic to Sachin Tendulkar's career. The results are quite damning. Do the stats of all great batsmen fall spectacularly (like Sachin's) against truly great fast bowlers?

    <From that Post>

    In Tests, Sachin averages a modest 36.77 against Australia when McGrath plays.

    It is very noticeable that most of his Test runs/stellar performances against Australia have invariably come only when McGrath was absent, basically against second rate (good, but not great) fast bowlers like Brett Lee, Mitchell Johnson, Kasper, Damien Fleming, Paul Riefel etc. Whenever McGrath is absent from the Australian attack, Sachin's average almost doubles (averages nearly 70 against Australia when McGrath is absent!!!).


    Against other great fast bowlers whom he faced at the peak of their powers in Test Match cricket, Sachin averages a pathetic 32 against South Africa whenever Allan Donald has played.

    I really don't know whether to include Wasim Akram here since India-Pak never played a series for nearly 10 years (between 1989 to 99 for political reasons) during which Akram was at his absolute peak. But Akram bowled very very well in 1999 when they played each other. In any case, Tendulkar averages an equally pathetic 32 against Pakistan whenever Wasim Akram has played.

    Once again, he revelled against the respective teams (South Africa and Pakistan) when these bowlers were absent.

    Against the 3 greatest fast bowlers of his era, whom he faced in more than one Test series, McGrath, Donald and Akram, Sachin has scored 1719 Test runs at a modest average of 34.3 (compared to his career average of 56).


    Here is the clincher:

    Of all the Test series Sachin has played against these great fast bowlers (McGrath,Donald,Akram), more than 7 series including home and away, only once did he average more than 50 in a series!, that too just barely, when he averaged 50.66 against McGrath in 2000-01 series at home in India. Even more stunning is the fact that only once was he India's best batsman in all the Test series against these bowlers (so much for him being the batting mainstay of India against great attacks). This is the very definition of being over-rated.

    The only truly great fast bowler Sachin has had some success against is Curtly Ambrose. But Sachin never faced Ambrose (or the West Indian attack) at their peak. He played only one Test series against Ambrose, that too in 1997, on the dead pitches of the Carribbean (4 of the 5 Tests ended in draws). Ambrose was 35 years old and couple of years away from retirement back then.


    Amazingly, the trend of Tendulkar's poor stats against great fast bowlers continues in ODIs. In spite of all the batsmen-favoured rules and pitches, Sachin's stats against these bowlers in ODIs are equally pathetic! A measly average of 31 (2222 runs @ 31.64) in ODIs after playing 70+ ODIs against McGrath/Donald/Akram. Only 2 of Sachin's ODI hundreds came against these bowlers (both against McGrath in the sub-continent). In 26 ODI innings against Donald, Sachin managed to cross fifty just 3 times!

    Very interesting analysis indeed. I wonder what some of the other posters like Migara, Bagpath, Slifer, Prince, Ankitj will have to say about this.

    But I do believe that your analysis makes for a strong case regarding the greatness of Richards.

  10. #10
    International Vice-Captain robelinda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaican View Post
    Yes I remember Taylor had a very good series against Windies in 91. IIRC, a hundred and 3 or 4 fifties in that series. Back then I used to follow most Test matches against Windies (making note of which batsmen were successful against their formidable pace attack).

    How come Wisden missed out on Gilchrist's spectacular (at almost run-a-ball) 149* against Akram/Younis/Akhtar/Saqlain in 1999 at Hobart? He walked in when Aussies were tottering at 125 for 6 and chasing 360+ in the fourth innings, he was the last recognized batsman, it was his debut Test series (just 2nd Test match of his career) against a very formidable attack. He batted as if it was a club level match. Spanking all the great bowlers to all parts of the ground. It was good clean hitting. It was easily the greatest Test innings I have followed.
    2nd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Hobart, Nov 18-22, 1999 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

    One of the very few instances in Test match cricket where great fast bowlers were dominated on a decent pitch in the fourth innings, that too under great pressure.
    Agree, also Steve Waugh's ton in the first innings of 3rd test 97 Ashes was a gem.

    In regards to Sachin's average v SA with Donald, Steve Waugh must have averaged way over 50. If anything Steve Waugh is underrated these days. Donald has said the two players he found most hard to bowl to were the Waugh twins, but Steve in particular.
    Last edited by robelinda; 05-10-2010 at 05:39 PM.

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    International Debutant shankar's Avatar
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    In 14 matches involving Venkatapathy Raju when India lost the toss, Sachin averages a pitiful 30.35.
    Last edited by shankar; 05-10-2010 at 05:41 PM.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shankar View Post
    In 14 matches involving Venkatapathy Raju when India lost the toss, Sachin averages a pitiful 30.35.
    Wow man. Where did you get these stats from?

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    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Interesting the Initial analysis did not include Ambrose ,Walsh and Younis and Tendulkar averages better against them.

    57 against Ambrose.
    All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    66 against Walsh-
    All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    42 in matches involving Younis,though only 4. Also 40 in matches involving Pollock and 45 against Steyn.


    Besides it is also very selective to include only Pacers,what about all time great spinners which this generation has seen with regards to Murali and Warne?

    He averages 49 in Matches Involving Murali ,and 61 in Matches Involving Warne.

    All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

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    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shankar View Post
    In 14 matches involving Venkatapathy Raju when India lost the toss, Sachin averages a pitiful 30.35.
    I am Shocked!!!

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    International Debutant shankar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    Wow man. Where did you get these stats from?
    Follow the link.

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