Is Viv Richards an Overrated Test Batsman?

[Godard]

I'm curious to know how Lara and Sachin are affected. Why? Because Lara hardly played Zim/Bang (if I recall correctly) while Sachin played them more I think...

Well the Pak team post the two Ws that Lara really feasted on in his late career( 2005 WI and 2006 Pak) had minnow level bowling attacks, tho that’s beside the point.

 

[Godard]

Note: All being done and said, id still to retirate this.

Removing Viv’s 1976 stats and showing him to be inferior to other ATGs is one of the most annoying takes I have seen.

He didn’t regularly average 45 throughout the rest of his career. 77-88: Av 50@ super high SR, in really tough era for batting. His slump(one of the worst for an ATG) dragged his post 76 output down. Plus played WSC for a decent period in his peak(1281@58), so inclusion of that would help post 76 stats and overall also. Viv also nearly scored one fifth of his runs in one year, so removing that is to judge him is quite ridiculous. His short terms peaks are some of the best ever(best after Bradman in my opinion), and the long term peak while being good and far from Sobers and Tendulkar level. Viv should be seen as a batsmen averaging 50 in total and nothing else. Not someone who was Damien Martyn apart from 1976, nor someone who could have averaged 52 or 53 outside his peak, because both his slump and peak are integral parts of his career.

 

[Slifer]

Well the Pak team post the two Ws that Lara really feasted on in his late career( 2005 WI and 2006 Pak) had minnow level bowling attacks, tho that’s beside the point.

He isn't the only one that feasted on them if you want to go there. And the WI bowling after Walsh retired? They were minnows level too if you want to go there. I just asked a simple question......

 

[Godard]

He isn't the only one that feasted on them if you want to go there. And the WI bowling after Walsh retired? They were minnows level too if you want to go there. I just asked a simple question......

Yes sure. But he did feast on them. How does it matter if the WI bowling was minnow level of not? We are talking about Lara’s opposition’s bowling, and this pertains(but doesn’t completely answer) to your question because you wanted their stats with runs against minnows removed.

 

[Slifer]

Yes sure. But he did feast on them. How does it matter if the WI bowling was minnow level of not? We are talking about Lara’s opposition’s bowling, and this pertains(but doesn’t completely answer) to your question because you wanted their stats with runs against minnows removed.

Dude chill out I just wanted to see how each batman was affected if zim/bang are taken out. You're the one who brought in Pakistan which was completely irrelevant to my request. I just did likewise, bringing up an irrelevant argument about how others feasted on WI.

Anyway, thanks Coronis for providing the info that I asked for.

 

[Godard]

Dude chill out I just wanted to see how each batman was affected if zim/bang are taken out. You're the one who brought in Pakistan which was completely irrelevant to my request. I just did likewise, bringing up an irrelevant argument about how others feasted on WI.

Anyway, thanks Coronis for providing the info that I asked for.

My mistake dude. Missed reading the part of your post that said bang/Zim.

 

[h_hurricane]

Interestingly, if we just consider the period where Tendulkar was at the same age as Lara during his 16 playing years(while removing BD and Zim), he scored 10548 runs at 53.81. Slightly less runs at a slightly higher average. Two amazing batsmen, hard to separate really. That is how I rate them.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[honestbharani]

Well the Pak team post the two Ws that Lara really feasted on in his late career( 2005 WI and 2006 Pak) had minnow level bowling attacks, tho that’s beside the point.

You mean the one that drew a series in India?

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm curious to know how Lara and Sachin are affected. Why? Because Lara hardly played Zim/Bang (if I recall correctly) while Sachin played them more I think...

Zimbabwe until 2001 or so were bad but not bad enough to be removed entirely imo. India and Pakistan both lost a test series to them. Post 2001 Zimb and Bangladesh until about 2015 were complete minnows who had no hope against anyone.

 

[honestbharani]

Zimbabwe until 2001 or so were bad but not bad enough to be removed entirely imo. India and Pakistan both lost a test series to them. Post 2001 Zimb and Bangladesh until about 2015 were complete minnows who had no hope against anyone.

Agree with this too. Though I would set the date at 99 than 2001 and also the start date at 96. They really were competitive in tests for only that very short window.

 

[Slifer]

Agree with this too. Though I would set the date at 99 than 2001 and also the start date at 96. They really were competitive in tests for only that very short window.

Yeah when they had Heath Streak they certainly had an ok attack. Imo Kyle Jarvis could've done well as well but for politics.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Viv is underrated. Averaging 50 home and away at a strike rate of 70 is insane

 

[CricAddict]

Agree with this too. Though I would set the date at 99 than 2001 and also the start date at 96. They really were competitive in tests for only that very short window.

Yes, the time of Flower brothers, Johnson, Goodwin and Streak. The Strangs, Whittalls and Olonga were decent support cast too.

 

[CricAddict]

Yeah when they had Heath Streak they certainly had an ok attack. Imo Kyle Jarvis could've done well as well but for politics.

Yes. Jarvis and Vitori were forming a potentially nice opening pair before Jarvis left and Vitori fell off. I am hoping they get better again. There are promising signs with Chatara and Muzarabani.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yes. Jarvis and Vitori were forming a potentially nice opening pair before Jarvis left and Vitori fell off. I am hoping they get better again. There are promising signs with Chatara and Muzarabani.

Evans could be good too.

 

[CricAddict]

Evans could be good too.

Yes. Now you say this, I see we have 2 sons playing the test match right now. Will be interesting to see if both overtake their father in terms of achievements. Chanders has a tougher job on that obviously.

 

[Godard]

You mean the one that drew a series in India?

Cmon that was a mostly batting intensive series(both top scoring 500+ in 3 matches( and the one that came in 2007 series, same thing.

 

[honestbharani]

Cmon that was a mostly batting intensive series (both top scoring 500+ in 3 matches (and the one that came in 2007 series, same thing.

I recall us being bowled out by Kaneria. And all the more shame if we could not even beat them in a "batting intensive" series.

 

[Godard]

I recall us being bowled out by Kaneria. And all the more shame if we could not even beat them in a "batting intensive" series.

One off performance dude. Plus possibly because Yousuf was in god form then. But yeah shame on us for that series.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes, the time of Flower brothers, Johnson, Goodwin and Streak. The Strangs, Whittalls and Olonga were decent support cast too.

Still a level below other test class teams. I wouldn't count them.