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Thread: ESPNcricinfo World XI

  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus0723 View Post
    If u wanted to put Wasim in so badly, you could have bolstered the batting by adding Imran for Lilllee and keeping the bowling as deadly as b4.
    Agreed.

  2. #632
    State Captain Lostman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post

    How many fast bowlers have taken 414 wickets@23?

    Wasim was every bit as good as the Ambroses,McGraths and Marshalls.So picking him for being a left armer is fair enough,imo.
    Picking him based on left handedness is lame for World XI. I don't care how the wickets/runs come as long as they come.

    Just based on stats alone;
    Mcgrath, Hadlee and Pollock have more wickets at a better average. Ambrose has slightly fewer wickets but at a better average and comparable strike rate. Donald has 80 odd wickets less at lower average and a far superior SR. And having watched McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram during their careers, I would rate Akram 4th.

    McGrath is possibly the most complete bowler in the last 25 years, and I cant believe he did not make the 1st and 2nd XI. Only Marshall's place over McGrath is justified among the chosen fast bowlers in the two teams.
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  3. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostman View Post
    Picking him based on left handedness is lame for World XI. I don't care how the wickets/runs come as long as they come.

    Just based on stats alone;
    Mcgrath, Hadlee and Pollock have more wickets at a better average. Ambrose has slightly fewer wickets but at a better average and comparable strike rate. Donald has 80 odd wickets less at lower average and a far superior SR. And having watched McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram during their careers, I would rate Akram 4th.

    McGrath is possibly the most complete bowler in the last 25 years, and I cant believe he did not make the 1st and 2nd XI. Only Marshall's place over McGrath is justified among the chosen fast bowlers in the two teams.
    Are you counting Barnes as a fast bowler when you say that?
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  4. #634
    State Captain Lostman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Are you counting Barnes as a fast bowler when you say that?
    Barnes is a category by himself so no.


  5. #635
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostman View Post
    Barnes is a category by himself so no.
    I completely agree with your whole post then.

  6. #636
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    Those ratings have Swann and Ntini over Akram and Holding..!!!

    I feel Akram's extraordinary ODI record sometimes makes people forget how great a test bowler he was.How many fast bowlers have taken 414 wickets@23?(that too after playing so much on dead pitches, with mediocre fielders)

    You could def. argue Imran was better,but it is subjective and very debatable.Wasim was every bit as good as the Ambroses,McGraths and Marshalls.So picking him for being a left armer is fair enough,imo.
    Wasim also took a bagful of tail enders. So that average of 23.6 odd ends up looking a lot more ordinary after you take that into account.

    And Wasim's average in subcontinent is better than that outside, so the dead pitch argument doesn't hold.

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostman View Post
    Picking him based on left handedness is lame for World XI. I don't care how the wickets/runs come as long as they come.

    Just based on stats alone;
    Mcgrath, Hadlee and Pollock have more wickets at a better average. Ambrose has slightly fewer wickets but at a better average and comparable strike rate. Donald has 80 odd wickets less at lower average and a far superior SR. And having watched McGrath, Ambrose, Donald and Akram during their careers, I would rate Akram 4th.

    McGrath is possibly the most complete bowler in the last 25 years, and I cant believe he did not make the 1st and 2nd XI. Only Marshall's place over McGrath is justified among the chosen fast bowlers in the two teams.


    Totally agree.
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  8. #638
    International 12th Man Slifer's Avatar
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    Thought he would have gotten slighted but Im so happy and choked up to see the great MM in the final XI. Still feel that Imran is definitely underated by the so called experts but hey its there team. On paper the 2nd XI's bowling looks better but the first Xi's batting is infinitely better at every position serously!!!

    PS LOL at the omission of Mcgrath and Hadlee from either team, that is just unforgievable. Oh and Ambrose is not overrated WTH??
    Cause Slifer said so.........!!!!

  9. #639
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    Also those ratings I pointed to are of course not everything. Ntini with an overall much lower bowling average cannot be placed above Akram. But a 70-90 point difference in peaks of Akram and other all time great fast bowlers does tell you something. That difference is quite statistically significant.

    And I am half way through with the comprehensive "value of wicket" analysis. It will be good to see how bowlers stack up once I publish them. As of now Wasim has not done spectacularly in that analysis. Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath have emerged as the best 3.

  10. #640
    State Captain Lostman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I completely agree with your whole post then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post


    Totally agree.
    aww making me feel warm and fuzzy inside

  11. #641
    State Vice-Captain akilana's Avatar
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    I would like to read opinions on who was the better batsman between viv richards and sobers?

  12. #642
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer sifter132's Avatar
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    Sobers better batsman than Viv for me.

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    No. If he does i will finally rate him. Although i highly doubt that will occur, especially if SA have a fully fit pace attack of Steyn/Morkel/De Wet/McLaren/Parnell/Kallis/Alexander available.
    See.. it is already happening.. Whatever Sehwag scores in SA won't count..
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    In the end, I think it's so utterly, incomprehensibly boring. There is so much context behind each innings of cricket that dissecting statistics into these small samples is just worthless. No-one has ever been faced with the same situation in which they come out to bat as someone else. Ever.
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  14. #644
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    Also those ratings I pointed to are of course not everything. Ntini with an overall much lower bowling average cannot be placed above Akram. But a 70-90 point difference in peaks of Akram and other all time great fast bowlers does tell you something. That difference is quite statistically significant.

    And I am half way through with the comprehensive "value of wicket" analysis. It will be good to see how bowlers stack up once I publish them. As of now Wasim has not done spectacularly in that analysis. Marshall, Ambrose and McGrath have emerged as the best 3.
    And I totally agree with you that as a test match bowler Wasim just doesn't stand shoulder to shoulder with most of the other giants. Imran does.

    What is this "value of wicket" analysis???? If this is about the quality of batsmen dismissed you will find Imran Khan as the best amongst Pakistani bowlers. And Dennis Lillee should also come in reasonably high on the list I think.

  15. #645
    International Debutant M0rphin3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ankitj View Post
    Wasim also took a bagful of tail enders. So that average of 23.6 odd ends up looking a lot more ordinary after you take that into account.

    And Wasim's average in subcontinent is better than that outside, so the dead pitch argument doesn't hold.
    Dead pitch argument is a load of BS actually. Subcontinent are the ideal for reverse swing bowling which Wasim (or Pak bowlers) is best known for.

    And you can't generalize all the subcontinent pitches like that either.

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