Ross Taylor vs Daniel Vettori

[Flem274*]

Who is the better test match batsman? (Batting only, no fielding, captaincy or bowling).

They are undeniably the flagship batsmen in the test side (Ryder hasn't played enough and McCullum is a level below) and both endlessly drag NZ's total to respectability. On one hand, Taylor is almost an opener some days, and practically a number three. But then Vettori generally joins him five minutes later, and we're about five down. Vettori also has to bat with the tail.

EDIT: Crap, can the mods add a poll please? James Franklin as irrelevant third option cheers.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

EDIT: Crap, can the mods add a poll please? James Franklin as irrelevant third option cheers.

Hopefully I've managed to click on the right buttons and add the poll to your topic.

[TumTum]

On ability it is clearly Taylor.

[Flem274*]

Originally Posted by Somerset

Hopefully I've managed to click on the right buttons and add the poll to your topic.

Cheers.

Ross Taylor averages 45 against test class teams (the joys of failing against minnows )

 Mat  Runs  HS   BatAv 100  50   W    BB  BowlAv 5w  Ct St

unfiltered            25  1941 154*  43.13   5   9   0   -       -    0  45  0
filtered              22  1810 154*  45.25   5   8   0   -       -    0  39  0

He is top class vs these teams:

v Australia            4   366 138   45.75   1   1   -   -       -    -   4  0
v England              6   553 154*  50.27   2   3   -   -       -    -  12  0
v India                3   322 151   64.40   2   0   0   -       -    0   6  0
v Pakistan             3   301  97   60.20   0   3   -   -       -    -   7  0

But poor to average vs these guys:

v South Africa         2    44  17   11.00   0   0   0   -       -    0   0  0
v Sri Lanka            2   159  81   39.75   0   1   -   -       -    -   7  0
v West Indies          2    65  46   21.66   0   0   -   -       -    -   3  0

He also averages 50 at home compared to 35 away.

Daniel Vettori since 2005 averages 42 against test class teams (except Zimbabwe who I included by accident and cbf filtering now):

Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered           100  152  23  3962 140  137* 134   30.71   5  22  17
filtered              36   60   9  2178 140  134  127   42.70   4  11   3

v Australia            8   15   4   409  77   65   46   37.18   0   2   1
v England              6   12   2   291  88   50*  48   29.10   0   2   1
v India                3    5   1   220 118   55   21   55.00   1   1   0
v Pakistan             3    5   0   287 134   99   40   57.40   1   1   0
v South Africa         5    9   2   270  81   60   46*  38.57   0   2   0
v Sri Lanka            4    7   0   386 140   67   63   55.14   1   3   1
v West Indies          5    5   0   140  42   33   30   28.00   0   0   0
v Zimbabwe             2    2   0   175 127   48    -   87.50   1   0   0

Against the subcontinental teams he is a champ, and he's not bad against South Africa and Australia either.

home                  21   33   4  1349 134  118   99   46.51   2   8   2
away                  15   27   5   829 140  127   81   37.68   2   3   1

He is another hometown hero, but to a lesser extent than Taylor.

And here's his batting year by year:

2005 (age: 25y 340d)   6    9   3   381 127   65   48   63.50   1   1   1
2006 (26y 339d)        8   11   0   387  81   63   60   35.18   0   4   1
2007 (27y 339d)        2    4   2    78  46*  17*   8   39.00   0   0   0
2008 (28y 339d)       10   18   3   393  88   50*  48   26.20   0   2   1
2009 (29y 340d)        8   14   1   779 140  134  118   59.92   3   3   0
2010 (30y 339d)        2    4   0   160  77   46   22   40.00   0   1   0

[kingkallis]

That shows how good Kiwis are @ test level...

We have to chose the best test batsman and the other 2 options are the bowlers. *sigh*

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by kingkallis

That shows how good Kiwis are @ test level...

We have to chose the best test batsman and the other 2 options are the bowlers. *sigh*

Yep fair play NZ are struggling to produce batsman these days. I think we are ranked 8th in the world (?) ahead of only Bangers.

Taylor is by far the better batsman and I base this on technique. Vettori scores his runs through his amazing temperament. The only time I would trust Vettori more than Taylor would be against left arm spin on a turning wicket. Other than that Taylor every time.

Vettori has a weakness to back of length deliveries just outside his off stump. Taylor has no weaknesses that I have seen he seems to get himself out.

These are our only two batsman who I trust to pick a doosra.

When I saw this thread I thought it was going to be about captaincy. So I will make a comment there. I think both of these captains have input into final team selection and both of them have struggled to get the balance right. Vettori captains a test team that has 5 bowlers despite our weak batting. He also has a love affair with Jeetan Patel.

Both captains are strong with field settings and not panicking under pressure. Too early with Taylor to make any other comments than that and obviously Taylor has only done it in ODIs.

[kingkallis]

You should not look for weaknesses in a bowler who bats superbly well.

I personally liked Jamie How, Flynn & Sinclair - players who could play long innings. Hows their performance in domestic cricket recently?

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by kingkallis

You should not look for weaknesses in a bowler who bats superbly well.

I personally liked Jamie How, Flynn & Sinclair - players who could play long innings. Hows their performance in domestic cricket recently?

Are you addressing my post with the weaknesses comment?

How Flynn and Sinclair could play long innings but not frequently enough at test level.

[kingkallis]

Yup, I was pointing at your post buddy!

[Flem274*]

Vettori has a fantastic eye tbh. I don't know where this idea that he scores runs from grit alone comes from. His technique relies on his eye.

Will lol in 15 years though when kids debut with Vettori-eque techniques. Will be so awesome.

EDIT: @kingKallis: I wouldn't call Vettori a bowler in tests tbh, he's a genuine allrounder.

[Bahnz]

Franklin bashed around Steyn and Ntini for fun. Easily the best kiwi batsman of the past 20 years.

[Howsie]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

EDIT: @kingKallis: I wouldn't call Vettori a bowler in tests tbh

Neither would I

Going Ross Taylor in this btw, bats in the top four and pretty much has had to carry the entire top order by himself his entire test career.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by kingkallis

You should not look for weaknesses in a bowler who bats superbly well.

Originally Posted by kingkallis

Yup, I was pointing at your post buddy!

I think you are trolling in this thread. The point of the thread is to compare and contrast the two players so it is a natural to point out their strengths and weaknesses.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

Vettori has a fantastic eye tbh. I don't know where this idea that he scores runs from grit alone comes from. His technique relies on his eye.

Will lol in 15 years though when kids debut with Vettori-eque techniques. Will be so awesome.

EDIT: @kingKallis: I wouldn't call Vettori a bowler in tests tbh, he's a genuine allrounder.

Vettori looks nigh on shotless for long periods. I've seen him play substantial innings without ever once hitting the ball in front of square. I'd say his game is based around a rock-solid defence and a couple of productive shots. If his game isn't based around grit, his MO certainly gives the impression it's all a massive struggle for him!

Looks like the kind of batter who's of limited natural ability, but squeezes his talent for ever last drop of worth.

Voting Taylor, however. Looks a class above.

[_Ed_]

Originally Posted by Flem274*

@kingKallis: I wouldn't call Vettori a bowler in tests tbh, he's a genuine allrounder.

Could even argue he's more of a batsman than a bowler these days. Same goes for Franklin, even though he hasn't really shown it in national colours.