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Thread: ***Official*** Spot-Fixing Scandal

  1. #481
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    I read the article below by Geoff Lawson and was astonished by the bolded part.

    Easy to overstep the mark when players' families' lives are at stake
    Geoff Lawson
    August 31, 2010

    People have been quick to judge the Pakistani cricketers, but what is happening might have nothing to do with money.

    If these allegations of fixing are proved, it could be related to extortion, threats, and the well-being of their own family members. It would not surprise me if illegal bookmakers have told players that if they do not perform X and Y, their families will be kidnapped or harmed.

    In my time as Pakistan coach, I gained some incredible insights into the workings of the country and the team, and I'll never forget the time the team captain called me up to his room on the eve of a match.

    Earlier that day, a player who we had not selected for the game approached me, saying: ''I was told I would be playing tomorrow.'' My response was, ''Well no, you're not, you've obviously been given the wrong information.''

    Then the skipper of the side called me late in the evening. I went to his room and he was standing there with a very sombre-looking selector.

    This selector said: ''We must pick [the player who had earlier approached me], I have been told that if he is not in the team tomorrow, my daughter will be kidnapped and I will not see her again.''

    At first we both laughed, but then we realised he was being serious. Our chairman then called the president, Pervez Musharraf, who in turn phoned the people behind the threats and said they had better reconsider or else. The next we heard the matter had been resolved.

    We must also remember that we are judging these guys by the standards of our own country, when their situations are vastly different.

    The first time I met Mohammad Amir was when he was 16 years old, coming to an under-19s camp. He comes from a small village near the Swat valley and was delayed by three hours because the Taliban had closed the highway. That doesn't happen in this country. One thing that struck me about Amir was his constant smile, his zest for the game. That has not changed.

    I will never condone any form of fixing, but we should consider that a cricketer might not be thinking of personal gain but of getting money to buy a generator for his village because they don't have electricity.

    I had a lot to do with Mohammad Asif and he was always missing training sessions to look after his sick mother. He has spent a lot of his money on looking after his family.

    If Salman Butt is involved in any match-fixing, I would be absolutely stunned. He is a very intelligent, polite guy and has done well since taking over the team.

    I cannot remember one incident in my time as coach of Pakistan that aroused suspicion of a fix.

    I had my eye on it when Asif and Shoaib Akhtar had come back from their nandrolone bans. We had a meeting about match-fixing and spot-fixing.

    We were pretty consistent during my tenure. The players knew there were financial rewards for performing well.

    My first reaction to this latest news was sadness. These are people I know, people I call friends. This will probably be the end of some careers.

    I don't think Pakistan should be banished. We have seen them survive some incredible on- and off-field turmoil. You shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    But I will say that the present Pakistan administration cannot escape some of the blame for this. What they need right now is positive leadership and they don't have it. The Pakistan Cricket Board chairman, Ijaz Butt, is not a leader, he should not have the job.

    When I was there, the board did not have people with vested interests, they were business people who treated people fairly. The first-class players were looked after and paid well and it made a difference.

    It would be the greatest tragedy if a young man like Aamer has been led astray.


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    That is insane. If that is indeed true (don't think Lawson would make it up), it is unfixable from a cricket POV. Should Pakistan be allowed to play cricket if their players might be performing under such duress at any given time?
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  2. #482
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Happened during the 1992 football World Cup with the Columbian team.
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  3. #483
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Quite an emotional and great piece from Lawson. Yeah people here tend to make wholesale statements without even attempting to gain an understanding of the psyche and the culture from where these players are coming. It may sound ridiculous for someone, like resorting to such stuff and justifying it as for not own good, but for the community. But fact of the matter is that, these guys have seen abject poverty, hardships and survived many a hungry stomach nights. It's like the story of the soldier who said he'd be loyal to death for the Company that pays him better. There really isn't bad or good in situations like these, just different point of views.
    Listen, if someone was threatening their family then we could have some sympathy. However the evidence seems to suggest this is just for money. And I don't care what the money is for, you don't earn it like that.

    To draw an analogy, I was really struggling for cash last year. It would be really easy for me to defraud cash into my account using the systems in work. Maybe I'd get caught, maybe I wouldn't. But that's not the point, because I know it would be wrong for me to do that.

  4. #484
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    That article is the perfect example of why punishments should be done on a case by case basis.

    However, if players or administrators of any country are having to risk the lives of their families to be involved in the national team you have to seriously question whether that country should be playing international cricket at all.


  5. #485
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    I guess in a lot of ways the Pakistani players are just a product of a society where corruption and coersion are the norm, especially in government. In that way, I don't really think I'd be as angry about the Pakistani players doing things like this than I would people like Hansie Cronje and Herschelle Gibbs.

    That said, I'm sure there are plenty of people in Pakistani cricket who don't succumb to these sort of measures and they manage to get on with things in a perfectly fine manner.

    I have no sympathy with Asif whatsoever. He might be the nicest bloke in the world but he has been given more chances than I care to count and he obviously doesn't understand how lucky he has been. Aamir is another case alltogther, obviously.
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  6. #486
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Listen, if someone was threatening their family then we could have some sympathy. However the evidence seems to suggest this is just for money. And I don't care what the money is for, you don't earn it like that.

    To draw an analogy, I was really struggling for cash last year. It would be really easy for me to defraud cash into my account using the systems in work. Maybe I'd get caught, maybe I wouldn't. But that's not the point, because I know it would be wrong for me to do that.
    Quite frankly I don't see how your situation is comparable to what some of these young cricketers have to face and I think it is disrespectful to even consider such. Any talk of punishments handed out should really be postponed until we actually have more details as to what really happened.
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  7. #487
    State Vice-Captain popepouri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    I guess in a lot of ways the Pakistani players are just a product of a society where corruption and coersion are the norm, especially in government. In that way, I don't really think I'd be as angry about the Pakistani players doing things like this than I would people like Hansie Cronje and Herschelle Gibbs.
    The Pakistan government is more corrupt than the South African government?

  8. #488
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    In terms of the PCB, knowing there are apparently these issues, it would be very interesting to know what measures they have taken. For example, the company I work for, a large multinational, has many anti-fraud measures. For example, we all do training courses about what to do if you're pressured into illegal practices. We also have an anonymous reporting system where you can submit any concerns you have, the system is run by a different company as far as I recall. The PCB presumably has these things as a minimum, and therefore they need to look at why these systems aren't adequate.

  9. #489
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popepouri View Post
    The Pakistan government is more corrupt than the South African government?
    I have absolutely no idea whether it is or not for a fact, but it's what I've been led to believe by a lot of people. Not saying the SA government isn't corrupt mind, but I find it hard to believe that it is as ingrained in the culture as much as it supposedly is in Pakistan.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Listen, if someone was threatening their family then we could have some sympathy. However the evidence seems to suggest this is just for money. And I don't care what the money is for, you don't earn it like that.

    To draw an analogy, I was really struggling for cash last year. It would be really easy for me to defraud cash into my account using the systems in work. Maybe I'd get caught, maybe I wouldn't. But that's not the point, because I know it would be wrong for me to do that.
    I don't know. But we hardly are privy to the extreme hardships through which they've come.

    And your example is perfect of what I said. Your society, upbringing etc don't permit you to do that, and well, that's the right way in your book. Perhaps the "hardship" what you had to endure, may not even be comparable to the best of times poor blokes in Pakistan may have experienced. I mean, who are we to judge from the front of computers about these people, and with our laws and our punishments and our trials??

    Sometimes money, glamour etc completely blinds guys. Has happened to the best of blokes apparently. Will happen till the end of humanity too.

  11. #491
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    I have absolutely no idea whether it is or not for a fact, but it's what I've been led to believe by a lot of people. Not saying the SA government isn't corrupt mind, but I find it hard to believe that it is as ingrained in the culture as much as it supposedly is in Pakistan.
    This is a government that spent many years proclaiming the evil of AIDS vaccination, isn't it?

    Rather like trying to decide whom out of Charles Manson and Fred West you'd like your daughter dating, I think.
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  12. #492
    International Debutant Evermind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    I guess in a lot of ways the Pakistani players are just a product of a society where corruption and coersion are the norm, especially in government. .
    Right on. This is the basic point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shri View Post
    Pissed off coz this **** has taken the shine off the scorecard draft which was becoming the next best thing since sliced bread.
    AWTA. Life bans to Amir and Asif for just that.
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  14. #494
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool View Post
    Quite frankly I don't see how your situation is comparable to what some of these young cricketers have to face and I think it is disrespectful to even consider such. Any talk of punishments handed out should really be postponed until we actually have more details as to what really happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    I don't know. But we hardly are privy to the extreme hardships through which they've come.

    And your example is perfect of what I said. Your society, upbringing etc don't permit you to do that, and well, that's the right way in your book. Perhaps the "hardship" what you had to endure, may not even be comparable to the best of times poor blokes in Pakistan may have experienced. I mean, who are we to judge from the front of computers about these people, and with our laws and our punishments and our trials??

    Sometimes money, glamour etc completely blinds guys. Has happened to the best of blokes apparently. Will happen till the end of humanity too.
    Well the example as to what I could have done would also be a much lesser offence (IMO) than what the cricketers have allegedly done.

    I also made it clear in my post that I was merely talking about cash-motivation and not making any attempt to draw comparisons with any threats that might have been made against them.

  15. #495
    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Apparently the man caught in the sting was at the ground when Pakistan completed their victory over Australia recently. He was congratulating all the Pakistani players, and Waqar was livid that he'd made it in and refused to shake hands with him. I guess this is a case of those not involved in the fixing knowing very well what was going on, but unable to blow the whistle because they had no proof.



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