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The Power of Hypocrisy - an anti BCCI rant

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Why is that always the defence when people criticize institutions like the BCCI? "it's not like it's the only board around the world that's ****ed *shrug*"

That's a pretty low basis against which to hold anyone and a really just a way of dismissing the case without discussing it.
When the criticism extends to those boards as well, it is understandable.. It gets really annoying when you hear the same thing again and again.. No one on here is claiming BCCI are the best but really, they are not that worse than other boards. Deal.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
If you think that it's part of a pattern of baseless claims that people make because of a prejudice, as opposed to having any basis in reality, just come out and say that, or ignore the conversation altogether. Otherwise, you telling me to deal is ironic. Defending something solely because it is frequently criticised seems a fairly pointless activity.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
If you think that it's part of a pattern of baseless claims that people make because of a prejudice, as opposed to having any basis in reality, just come out and say that, or ignore the conversation altogether. Otherwise, you telling me to deal is ironic. Defending something solely because it is frequently criticised seems a fairly pointless activity.
Define Defending? And tell me where I have done that.......
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Define Defending? And tell me where I have done that.......
In the context of this discussion?

Exactly.. It is not as if cricket governance is impeccable in other places..
I thought this was defending the BCCI by suggesting that they were no worse than anyone else which, as I said, seems a poor kind of argument.

And the "exactly" was agreeing with this post:
SS in anti-BCCI shocker. It's like Bishan Singh Bedi. After a while you stop reacting because you're no longer surprised that he's shaking his fist at a cloud. :p :ph34r:
which is playing the man, not the argument, again as a way of dismissing the issues and defending the party being criticized, the BCCI.
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
In the context of this discussion?



I thought this was defending the BCCI by suggesting that they were no worse than anyone else which, as I said, seems a poor kind of argument.

And the "exactly" was agreeing with this post:

which is playing the man, not the argument, again as a way of dismissing the issues and defending the party being criticized, the BCCI.
Not really.. I meant I don't have the interest to read any more anti-BCCI pieces because there is so much of it around. And it is not exactly unexpected from someone like SS. Having been on CW for this long, I am well acquainted with his views on BCCI.


But the fact that he refuses to acknowledge that there are bodies much, much worse in India itself and outside means I don't really need to give his opinion on this as much credence on this as I would do otherwise...


Once again, really fail to see how you got "defending" from that post of mine... Unless you were already thinking that is what I was doing.. :p
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
It's defending because you're downplaying the seriousness of the issues involved and suggesting they are to a degree acceptable when you use an argument suggesting something along the lines of "so what, everyone does that" (which I acknowledge is a paraphrase of your comment). That is, by my definition, a form of defending someone's actions.

You're entitled of course to give credence to what you want, but equally, I find it hard to give any credence to people who discount others opinions simply because they disagree with them. That tends to suggest a lack of robustness in their examination of whatever the issue at hand is. On different topics you've said you've done exactly that to SS and Gideon Haigh. Both, in my experience, certainly take strong positions on issues, but are prepared to have a sensible discussion on them (ok, I've had less discussions with Haigh, but I've seen him discuss his views on panel shows etc), and provide an explanaiton of why they're saying what they're saying. SS is definitely not a troll in the vein of wahindiawah or SideshowTim who simply says disagreeable things to try and annoy people. I think you're doing yourself a disservice in doing so. If on the other hand, you're tired of the arguments that can regularly be found in CC, I'd certainly understand that - I go through phases myself where I can't be bothered and hence don't post here much in CC for lengths of time.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
which is playing the man, not the argument, again as a way of dismissing the issues and defending the party being criticized, the BCCI.
Of course I was playing the man there. I referred to him specifically. Pasag wondered why the thread hadn't resulted in WW3, and I told him why I thought so. It was hardly a dismissal of issues and a defense of the party being criticised.
 

jeevan

International 12th Man
The author asks:

"How many officials in the BCCI actually worked up through their state associations and became their heads before back-room dealing their way into the national stage?"

The current BCCI president, Shashank Manohar, had run the Vidharbha Cricket Association since the mid-90's immediately prior.

The previous BCCI president, Sharad Pawar, had been previously president of the Mumbai Cricket association since 2001. While that was his first foray into cricket bodies, he's held a clutch of sports administration posts at the state level for a long time prior to that, albeit in less popular sports.

Also the article fails to mention the opposition to Howard from Cricket South Africa, which runs a reasonably professional domestic program, in its simplified view of the world of "white" cricketing nations that have well run domestic infrastructure and "brown" and "black" ones that do not.
 
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Matt79

Global Moderator
Actually he did mention that Howard can't have been surprised that CSA would have issues with him given he opposed the boycott of SA over Apartheid, yet supported a boycott of Zimbabwe.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
It's defending because you're downplaying the seriousness of the issues involved and suggesting they are to a degree acceptable when you use an argument suggesting something along the lines of "so what, everyone does that" (which I acknowledge is a paraphrase of your comment). That is, by my definition, a form of defending someone's actions.

You're entitled of course to give credence to what you want, but equally, I find it hard to give any credence to people who discount others opinions simply because they disagree with them. That tends to suggest a lack of robustness in their examination of whatever the issue at hand is. On different topics you've said you've done exactly that to SS and Gideon Haigh. Both, in my experience, certainly take strong positions on issues, but are prepared to have a sensible discussion on them (ok, I've had less discussions with Haigh, but I've seen him discuss his views on panel shows etc), and provide an explanaiton of why they're saying what they're saying. SS is definitely not a troll in the vein of wahindiawah or SideshowTim who simply says disagreeable things to try and annoy people. I think you're doing yourself a disservice in doing so. If on the other hand, you're tired of the arguments that can regularly be found in CC, I'd certainly understand that - I go through phases myself where I can't be bothered and hence don't post here much in CC for lengths of time.
Well.. the BCCI is corrupt. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.. I don't really think it would matter even if I thought otherwise, coz it simply isn't true.


I am playing the poster just as much as GI Joe did because, it is something serious when you mention it once or twice. But it is obvious nothing is really gonna change... And I find it tiresome when you keep repeating the same thing again and again. The points where he was wrong has already been addressed by Jeevan.. As I said, if SS is this strong aboout the other bodies in cricket and the other sports bodies in India, he would have something. He is not mentioning anything I don't already know and I have been critical of the BCCI quite a bit in the past too. Hence, the "no care" factor here.


I don't think you see this in the same light as I do. So I can understand why you would consider all this a "defence" of the BCCI but I can assure you it is not. You can dig up posts on BCCI by me to see this... Right now, I feel the way some of our Pak posters would feel about talking about how corrupt the PCB is... It is just that we have had enough. And the author here is some one who refuses to acknowledge some elementary areas where the BCCI are indeed ok and sometimes good. So once again, given the author and his views on the subject matter, this is not an article I am queuing up to read... Which is what I meant in my first post of this thread.



OOC: Matt, you and I should get hitched or something.. :p
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
It's defending because you're downplaying the seriousness of the issues involved and suggesting they are to a degree acceptable when you use an argument suggesting something along the lines of "so what, everyone does that" (which I acknowledge is a paraphrase of your comment). That is, by my definition, a form of defending someone's actions.

You're entitled of course to give credence to what you want, but equally, I find it hard to give any credence to people who discount others opinions simply because they disagree with them. That tends to suggest a lack of robustness in their examination of whatever the issue at hand is. On different topics you've said you've done exactly that to SS and Gideon Haigh. Both, in my experience, certainly take strong positions on issues, but are prepared to have a sensible discussion on them (ok, I've had less discussions with Haigh, but I've seen him discuss his views on panel shows etc), and provide an explanaiton of why they're saying what they're saying. SS is definitely not a troll in the vein of wahindiawah or SideshowTim who simply says disagreeable things to try and annoy people. I think you're doing yourself a disservice in doing so. If on the other hand, you're tired of the arguments that can regularly be found in CC, I'd certainly understand that - I go through phases myself where I can't be bothered and hence don't post here much in CC for lengths of time.
And I know and respect SS very much as a CW poster, mate.. It is just that when you discuss BCCI, Steroids or Glenn McGrath, you just don't pay enough attention to him.. ;)



BTW, I meant you generically here.. :p
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Can see it now. "Kids, HB and I do fight sometimes, but that doesn't mean that we don't both love you very much, or that we won't always be here for you".
hey.. that is the line you use when you wanna seperate.. :(


I thought we had something good going on.. :(
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Just explaining to them why they might hear yelling and what sounds like a slap every now and again. If you ever try to leave me, I'll find you!
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
It's hard enough for long-distance interracial couples without that kind of hatred Zac. Disappointed in you. :(
 

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