Please explain

Craig · 26-08-2003, 04:17 AM

I have read that Ashley Giles role is a containing one in bowling over the wicket into the rough. Well now correct me if I am wrong, you pick bowlers at Test level to take 20 wickets to win the Test, so you pick bowlers bowlers to take the wickets not a containing one.

So I cant work out for the life of mine why he is used in that role. Wouldnt it be more logical to use him in an attacking role? I mean bowling over the wicket, he cant get a batsmen out LBW and if he is too get a wicket, it would more to a poor shot.

Marc, I'm not taking a pot shot at Giles, I cant work out their logic.

marc71178 · 26-08-2003, 06:35 AM

I think the containment is an attempt to stifle the batsmen and frustrate them.

Giles isn't a big enough turner on English wickets to attack all the time, so we bowl to the conditions. Some good flat containing spin.

luckyeddie · 26-08-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marc71178
I think the containment is an attempt to stifle the batsmen and frustrate them.

Giles isn't a big enough turner on English wickets to attack all the time, so we bowl to the conditions. Some good flat containing spin.

Jenner turns in his grave:P

marc71178 · 26-08-2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by luckyeddie
Jenner turns in his grave:P

But is it flighted turn?

Mr Mxyzptlk · 26-08-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luckyeddie
Jenner turns in his grave:P

You seem to consider alot of people dead. Is this an issue that you have to work out? :P

Rich2001 · 26-08-2003, 01:17 PM

I listened to an interview with the England coach during the ODI's vs Pakistan when this whole arugment started in the media and he stated that A Glies doesn't bowl around the wicket as he has a small fault in his action that prevents him doing so meaning that although he can do it, he would never be at his best etc

marc71178 · 26-08-2003, 03:57 PM

I saw an interview with Gilo on C4 before one of the Tests (the Roadshow) and he responded to the over the wicket criticism by saying that both Duncan and Vaughan agreed that that was the way they planned to use him since they thought it was the best for the team, and being a real team man, he went along with it!

Craig · 26-08-2003, 06:01 PM

But what is the point in trying to fustrate batsmen? If he bowled over the wicket he is more threatening.

Rich2001 · 26-08-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig
But what is the point in trying to fustrate batsmen? If he bowled over the wicket he is more threatening.

Because in defending your not giving away runs between the wickets he takes, and if you keep a batsman like Tendulkar / Lara quite for more than a ball or two they will try riskier shots to try and get flowing again, therefore giving chances to the field.

Also when you have bowlers the other end who can't contain they just go for wickets, you need someone to tie a end up otherwise your be looking at scores of 400 at the end of day 1, also if his ties an end up means the cap can rotate his paceman for shorther sharper spells rather than being forced to bowl them for longer spells trying to reel the batsman back in.

Craig · 26-08-2003, 07:07 PM

But it is possible to bowl around the wicket and attack and defend.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 26-08-2003, 09:25 PM

I suspect that bowling defensively against Lara on West Indian pitches will not be effective in dismissing him. However, it will keep him quiet, if only temporarily. I expect it would be much the same with Tendulkar. In fact, I don't see most batsmen in world cricket lacking patience so severely that they would get out to Giles in a Test with the way he bowls.

Craig · 26-08-2003, 10:19 PM

Hence to what I am saying.

royGilchrist · 27-08-2003, 12:12 AM

Giles is a decent bowler. He bowled better than pakistani spinners a few years back in Pakistan. And especially considering Pakistan has generally better players of spin than England.

marc71178 · 27-08-2003, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig
But what is the point in trying to fustrate batsmen? If he bowled over the wicket he is more threatening.

He does tend to bowl over the wicket though!

marc71178 · 27-08-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
I expect it would be much the same with Tendulkar. In fact, I don't see most batsmen in world cricket lacking patience so severely that they would get out to Giles in a Test with the way he bowls.

Erm, who was the first bowler to get him stumped through frustrating him?

26-08-2003, 06:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
marc71178 Eyes not spreadsheets Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: England Posts: 56,346	I think the containment is an attempt to stifle the batsmen and frustrate them. Giles isn't a big enough turner on English wickets to attack all the time, so we bowl to the conditions. Some good flat containing spin. __________________ marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good! Anyone want to join the Society? Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

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26-08-2003, 01:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rich2001 Cricket Web Vice Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 7,181	I listened to an interview with the England coach during the ODI's vs Pakistan when this whole arugment started in the media and he stated that A Glies doesn't bowl around the wicket as he has a small fault in his action that prevents him doing so meaning that although he can do it, he would never be at his best etc

26-08-2003, 03:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
marc71178 Eyes not spreadsheets Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: England Posts: 56,346	I saw an interview with Gilo on C4 before one of the Tests (the Roadshow) and he responded to the over the wicket criticism by saying that both Duncan and Vaughan agreed that that was the way they planned to use him since they thought it was the best for the team, and being a real team man, he went along with it!

26-08-2003, 06:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
Craig World Traveller Join Date: May 2003 Location: Super Happy Fun Sugar Lollipop Land! Posts: 34,131	But what is the point in trying to fustrate batsmen? If he bowled over the wicket he is more threatening.

26-08-2003, 07:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
Craig World Traveller Join Date: May 2003 Location: Super Happy Fun Sugar Lollipop Land! Posts: 34,131	But it is possible to bowl around the wicket and attack and defend.

26-08-2003, 09:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mr Mxyzptlk Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Trinidad and Tobago (Trinidad) Posts: 36,795	I suspect that bowling defensively against Lara on West Indian pitches will not be effective in dismissing him. However, it will keep him quiet, if only temporarily. I expect it would be much the same with Tendulkar. In fact, I don't see most batsmen in world cricket lacking patience so severely that they would get out to Giles in a Test with the way he bowls.

26-08-2003, 10:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
Craig World Traveller Join Date: May 2003 Location: Super Happy Fun Sugar Lollipop Land! Posts: 34,131	Hence to what I am saying.

27-08-2003, 12:12 AM	#13 (permalink)
royGilchrist State 12th Man Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 787	Giles is a decent bowler. He bowled better than pakistani spinners a few years back in Pakistan. And especially considering Pakistan has generally better players of spin than England.

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