Ed Joyce seeks early return to Ireland

[Andre]

Always kind of wondered if they would introduce a rule along the lines of if a country played ODI's, then the associate player had to play for them in the forms of the game their country had international status is, but then if they wanted to play Test cricket they would play for the most relevant Test playing nation.

For example, Morgan would still play ODI's/T20 for Ireland because they play at that level on the international stage, but would play Tests for England because Ireland can't play at that level.

Understand it would be problematic but always thought it might be worth considering in order to ensure the depth of the associates doesn't get plundered by the stronger nations.

 

[Prince EWS]

Always kind of wondered if they would introduce a rule along the lines of if a country played ODI's, then the associate player had to play for them in the forms of the game their country had international status is, but then if they wanted to play Test cricket they would play for the most relevant Test playing nation.

For example, Morgan would still play ODI's/T20 for Ireland because they play at that level on the international stage, but would play Tests for England because Ireland can't play at that level.

Understand it would be problematic but always thought it might be worth considering in order to ensure the depth of the associates doesn't get plundered by the stronger nations.

Yeah I've always liked that idea too. Quite a few problems associated with it though - conflicting tour fixtures, weird situations when England play Ireland in ODIs, teams wanting to use their ODI team to groom future Test players etc.

 

[Andre]

Yeah I've always liked that idea too. Quite a few problems associated with it though - conflicting tour fixtures, weird situations when England play Ireland in ODIs, teams wanting to use their ODI team to groom future Test players etc.

Yeah I can see the problems with it, but it could be better than associates being used as simply a production line - this would give them some sort of chance for improvement and further their cases for Test cricket.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah I can see the problems with it, but it could be better than associates being used as simply a production line - this would give them some sort of chance for improvement and further their cases for Test cricket.

AWTA. I just hope that players like Morgan and Joyce are actually taken into account when the ICC evaluates associates close to Test status. I think it's fair to say that both would be playing for Ireland in Tests if Ireland had a Test side which would obviously make them a fair bit stronger than how their current side performs at Intercontinental Cup and ODI level. I don't think Ireland should be considered for Test status just yet but I don't think they're really that far off when you consider they're getting their players into one of the stronger Test teams, especially if you use Bangladesh as the benchmark.

 

[Andre]

AWTA. I just hope that players like Morgan and Joyce are actually taken into account when the ICC evaluates associates close to Test status. I think it's fair to say that both would be playing for Ireland in Tests if Ireland had a Test side which would obviously make them a fair bit stronger than how their current side performs at Intercontinental Cup and ODI level. I don't think Ireland should be considered for Test status just yet but I don't think they're really that far off when you consider they're getting their players into one of the stronger Test teams, especially if you use Bangladesh as the benchmark.

Yeah exactly. Plus, it's difficult to see them ever getting to Test status if players of the calibre of Joyce and Morgan have to play for England to play in the Test arena. All they'll end up doing is producing quality cricketers and have to wave goodbye because they can't offer them the pinnacle of the game. Really hope that those sorts of players are considered when the discussion of Ireland playing Tests comes up at the relevant levels.

That said, the better Irish cricketers play county cricket as locals, so it could be argued that they are coming of the English production line and that England deserve to reap the rewards of this.

Don't really see as easy solution but I reckon the associates need safeguarding of some sort to ensure they don't fall off the radar.

 

[morgieb]

Ed Joyce should've been playing for Ireland far earlier than he has. It's criminal that he can change from Ireland to England within 1 week but have to wait 4 years to play for Ireland again.

 

[Andre]

Ed Joyce should've been playing for Ireland far earlier than he has. It's criminal that he can change from Ireland to England within 1 week but have to wait 4 years to play for Ireland again.

Disagree completely. There has to be some sort of deterrent for people changing nationalities on a frequent basis, it's not like signing a football contract and changing clubs, it is representing a nation.

The real bug in the system is that someone can go from an associate to a Test playing nation in a week, rather than waiting 4 years to have to go back. The 4 years bit, IMO, makes a lot more sense than the former - it's not like Joyce wouldn't have known the rules at the time, either.

 

[Sir Alex]

Yeah exactly. Plus, it's difficult to see them ever getting to Test status if players of the calibre of Joyce and Morgan have to play for England to play in the Test arena. All they'll end up doing is producing quality cricketers and have to wave goodbye because they can't offer them the pinnacle of the game. Really hope that those sorts of players are considered when the discussion of Ireland playing Tests comes up at the relevant levels.

That said, the better Irish cricketers play county cricket as locals, so it could be argued that they are coming of the English production line and that England deserve to reap the rewards of this.

Don't really see as easy solution but I reckon the associates need safeguarding of some sort to ensure they don't fall off the radar.

Good post. This is exactly my concern too. ICC should not let this go on because it makes the entire objective of making more nations play test cricket futile.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Why not just allow anyone from associate nations to play test cricket for one team and one team only, even if it isn't their country of origin. Then they could only play ODI cricket for their associate nation. It wouldn't apply to many people as not that many of the people from associate nations would get into a Test side anyway. It'd give them something to work really hard towards getting good enough to play test cricket and in the meanwhile, raise the standard of associate cricket.

 

[Sir Alex]

Why not just allow anyone from associate nations to play test cricket for one team and one team only, even if it isn't their country of origin. Then they could only play ODI cricket for their associate nation. It wouldn't apply to many people as not that many of the people from associate nations would get into a Test side anyway. It'd give them something to work really hard towards getting good enough to play test cricket and in the meanwhile, raise the standard of associate cricket.

How exactly can it make an associate team become test standard when all their good players go when they're half good to other countries?

 

[PhoenixFire]

How exactly can it make an associate team become test standard when all their good players go when they're half good to other countries?

Only play test cricket for other countries. Like I said, for everything else like WCs, Champions Trophy, that associate league that takes the 4-day form, they'd play for the associate nations. They'd bring the experience and skills of playing at a higher level to their teams. It's only really apply for a few players anyway.

 

[Sir Alex]

Only play test cricket for other countries. Like I said, for everything else like WCs, Champions Trophy, that associate league that takes the 4-day form, they'd play for the associate nations. They'd bring the experience and skills of playing at a higher level to their teams. It's only really apply for a few players anyway.

It's not an easy task. You play with some national pride unlike other teams and it's hard on them to constantly shift loyalties. There won't be any difference from them and the average IPL player in that case.

 

[PhoenixFire]

It's not an easy task. You play with some national pride unlike other teams and it's hard on them to constantly shift loyalties. There won't be any difference from them and the average IPL player in that case.

Nah, when they play Test cricket they are obviously going to try their very hardest; it's Test cricket FFS, not some 20-20 tournament. If they get to a point when they are playing Test cricket and realise that they aren't giving their all, they need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask why they play cricket.

 

[Sir Alex]

Nah, when they play Test cricket they are obviously going to try their very hardest; it's Test cricket FFS, not some 20-20 tournament. If they get to a point when they are playing Test cricket and realise that they aren't giving their all, they need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask why they play cricket.

Motivation for different players vary differently. For some representing their home team in test cricket is pinnacle. To ask them to play at the highest level like a mercenary for another country may not bring the expected results out of all.

Look at how an assorted test team like the World XI came up a cropper against Australia in 2005, despite having some of the best talents. Here the motivation I believe was the key factor, rather than ability or preparation etc.

Besides there are the obvious scheduling conflicts, not to mention teams arguing their secrets might be in the open due to such an arrangement. Also homegrown players might feel miffed at someone coming from outside taking their place. Looks like nothing but trouble.

 

[Uppercut]

The suggestion that players won't perform as well for a country that they weren't born in because they aren't trying as hard is just lolworthy.

Lolworthy. Valuable addition to the English language, far superior to the now-obsolete "laughable".

 

[Sir Alex]

The suggestion that players won't perform as well for a country that they weren't born in because they aren't trying as hard is just lolworthy.

Lolworthy. Valuable addition to the English language, far superior to the now-obsolete "laughable".

Way to twist what I said.

 

[NasserFan207]

This.

English practise of robbing and discarding players of other countries at will (okay technically they are "choosing" to represent England, but let's not kid ourselves) is a disgrace to cricketing logic. Either they make Ireland part of England (in cricket) or prevent such stuff altogether.

Ed Joyce should not be given any reprieve here, and be a reminder to all those who seek easy pastures outside their country of birth. You make the decision with some permanency. It is not outsourcing or contract work.

YES BECUZ THEY IZ THE SAME COUNTRY RITE? lolz.

Good to get Joyce back. Though I'd swap him for someone else, oh well.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Being honest i've never really rated him that highly and was amazed we picked him to start with.Let him go back to Ireland as he will never play for England again as he isn't good enough.

 

[Jono]

Or maybe I'm just being old-fashioned and wanted players to play for the country of their birth and all that. How 20th century of me.

Why is birth so important though?

If someone from Bermuda moves to Australia at 16 years of age because their parents move, they somehow are a freak at cricket, and take it up, they're entitled to play for Australia right?

 

[Stapel]

I like the idea that players can be "promoted" to Test level by changing the country they play for. But one change is enough, guess.