Philip Hughes

[TumTum]

How's that a contradiction? I said the pitch wasn't assisting the bowling, swing doesn't come from the pitch.

The pitch is a big factor, it also depends on the condition of the ball and the humidity. Just because it doesn't actually come in contact with the surface, it doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. Why do you think green pitches are the ones that usually offer swing? Just a mere coincidence?

Of course getting out on 0 is a bad innings, every great player has been out in an innings like that, but in no way can you call it a mediocre innings. He didn't look troubled like he did in the Ashes and just managed to edge a couple of balls. How can you derive from that that he will not a be a successful Test batsmen?

 

[Shifter]

I don't see how the pitch can have an affect on swing, apart from how it scuffs up the ball.

 

[Jarquis]

He didn't look troubled like he did in the Ashes and just managed to edge a couple of balls. How can you derive from that that he will not a be a successful Test batsmen?

Heh. Didn't look bad just played an atrocious shot every ball.
And I don't think he ever did say that...

 

[King Pietersen]

The pitch is a big factor, it also depends on the condition of the ball and the humidity. Just because it doesn't actually come in contact with the surface, it doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. Why do you think green pitches are the ones that usually offer swing? Just a mere coincidence?

The pitch has zero impact on the amount of swing extracted. The pitch can lead to seam movement and variation in bounce; a bit of grass on the pitch has no impact on the ball swinging whatsoever.

Of course getting out on 0 is a bad innings, every great player has been out in an innings like that, but in no way can you call it a mediocre innings. He didn't look troubled like he did in the Ashes and just managed to edge a couple of balls.

He did look troubled. Sami tucked him up 2 or 3 times with back of a length deliveries at his body, he looked uncomfortable against the short ball, and then couldn't even get his bread and butter shots away. Normally Hughes would have slapped the 2 balls he should have got out to for 4. He smacked a short wide one straight to Umar Akmal, then a full and wide half volley was edged to slip. If he's not even getting his favourite shots right, how can you possibly claim the innings was anything but terrible? He looked terrible, and got out for 0. I wouldn't even consider the innings mediocre. His 2nd innings effort was mediocre; getting dropped before inevitably getting out for a duck is not even close to a mediocre innings. Love really is blind.

How can you derive from that that he will not a be a successful Test batsmen?

What are you on about? I never said he won't be a successful Test batsman. Reading my posts would probably help TBH mate, as you've brought up quite a few things that I've never said.

 

[Prince EWS]

getting dropped before inevitably getting out for a duck

/discussion

 

[TumTum]

1. Ok so you never said that KP, so do you think Hughes will be a successful Test batsmen? Reading your comments the answer is pretty clear.

2. I think you are a fool to think the pitch has no impact on swing. The commentators even said there will be a lot of movement which implies both seam and swing.

3. You yourself said that Hughes got out to a swinging delivery, so doesn't that give an advantage to Sami? You can't just say he got out to a crap bowler when he got some movement in the air? This is where you were contradicting yourself, saying Sami was a crap bowler but at the same time saying he got out against a swinging delivery by Sami.

 

[marc71178]

2. I think you are a fool to think the pitch has no impact on swing.

How exactly does the pitch impact on swing then (particularly seeing as most swing occurs before the ball bounces)

 

[King Pietersen]

1. I think Phil Hughes has the potential to be a very good player, and has done incredibly well with his clearly limited technique. I was merely replying to your comment about his 0, it's you that's got your panties in a twist and instantly presumed I'm part of a hate campaign against the lad.

2. The pitch doesn't impact swing in any way whatsoever. The pitch impacts on seam movement, but I've never doubted that. You really need to do some research on swing if you think it comes from the pitch.

3. Swing does give an advantage to the bowler, but Sami wasn't hooping it around, swinging it both ways. The delivery Hughes edged was a wide half volley that should have been put away. An on-form Hughes would have been on at least 8 by the delivery he got out on, but he played poorly, hitting the half tracker in the air to Akmal before edging to slip. End of discussion. I'm amazed you're continuing to defend an awful innings that resulted in a duck.

Also, Sami is a poor bowler. Him extracting some swing does not change that. It's not even close to being a contradiction. Daren Powell's a terrible bowler, but he does sometimes extract a bit of movement, when he does so it doesn't instantly make him a Test-quality bowler, and it's the same with Sami.

 

[TumTum]

LOL my first thread

Ok I get what you are saying KP, but it did sound as if you were taking a shot at Hughes before but it's good we cleared that up

I get the part that just because Sami extracts some rare swing it doesn't make him a good Test bowler, but for just that small occasion where he did get the ball to move, it does make him a hard bowler to face so you can't blame Hughes for getting out that way.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

If anyone has had a pop at Hughes it is me but that is because all we heard from the convicts was that he was the new Bradman and he promptly failed when tested in the ashes.Now i am entitled to a bit of gloating am i not?

He may go on to be a very good player in time but like a few other hyped players before him if you have a flaw against the short ball as big as Hughes has then it will be exploited time and again by the top bowlers.He is lucky he has come on the scene when there is a dearth of quality quick bowling as if he had been around 20 years ago he'd have ended up crying like a baby like the other Hughes who captained them.

 

[Riggins]

2. The pitch doesn't impact swing in any way whatsoever. The pitch impacts on seam movement, but i've never doubted that. You really need to do some research on swing if you think it comes from the pitch.

the pitch does impact the swing!

 

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, pitch (especially in Australia) has a pretty large impact on how much and how long the ball swings for.

 

[Matt79]

What does any of this have to do with Phil Hughes. I feel like everyone is taking crazy pills!

 

[flibbertyjibber]

What does any of this have to do with Phil Hughes. I feel like everyone is taking crazy pills!

Well in the England v Bangladesh thread a convict was laughing at Bopara failing in the ashes so i pointed out Hughes did too and it has snowballed from there.

 

[benchmark00]

At the end of the day, Hughes will be able to work on his deficiencies and improve, but no matter how hard Bopara works on it, he'll still be English.

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah, pitch (especially in Australia) has a pretty large impact on how much and how long the ball swings for.

You're talking in terms of damage to the ball, yeah? I do remember reading a study several years ago regarding the humid atmosphere generated by the soil in the deck and it's impact on the swing movement of the ball as it gets closer to bouncing. Dunno if they were ever able to fully unpick the movement caused by the humid atmospheric conditions and that emanating from the deck but was the first and only study I've seen giving it a crack.

Just think people saying pitch has no impact on swing may be a bit hasty.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Lets be honest,swing is no exact science and we will never fully understand the reason why some balls swing more than others despite being from the same batch and why one side can get it to go yet the other can't,yet later in the same match it will be the other way round.

It is one of the mysteries that all of us love and helps to make cricket the special game it is.

 

[benchmark00]

You're talking in terms of damage to the ball, yeah? I do remember reading a study several years ago regarding the humid atmosphere generated by the soil in the deck and it's impact on the swing movement of the ball as it gets closer to bouncing. Dunno if they were ever able to fully unpick the movement caused by the humid atmospheric conditions and that emanating from the deck but was the first and only study I've seen giving it a crack.

Just think people saying pitch has no impact on swing may be a bit hasty.

There's certainly a line of thinking that the greener the grass below the ball, the cooler the air becomes (iirc). This impacts on the amount of swing produced.

It's an explanation given for why the ball seems to swing wildly at times after passing the stumps and on the way to the keeper.

Swing bowling is for jerks and queens though. Bounce ****s out ffs.

 

[Migara]

Pitch has some say on swing. Grassy pitches have a sheet of humid air overlying it, and we know that it's the humidity that assists the swing. The rubber mat laid practice pitch does not swing, bit the same ball swings when bowled over the grass or a grassy pitch. Otherwise Sri Lanka should be a graveyard of swing bowlers if you consider the pitch conditions. Grassy pitches will allow conventional swing to last longer, but will hinder in producing the reverse swing.

SL pitches swing madly for about half an hour to hour, until the pitches dry. Then only after 50 overs you get erverse swing. It's ridiculous when you say that pitch condition does not help swing

 

[vic_orthdox]

You're talking in terms of damage to the ball, yeah? I do remember reading a study several years ago regarding the humid atmosphere generated by the soil in the deck and it's impact on the swing movement of the ball as it gets closer to bouncing. Dunno if they were ever able to fully unpick the movement caused by the humid atmospheric conditions and that emanating from the deck but was the first and only study I've seen giving it a crack.

Just think people saying pitch has no impact on swing may be a bit hasty.

Yeah, the obvious part is condition of the ball. But you just know how much more often the ball seems to swing when the pitch has a bit of grass on it; don't ask me to explain the science of it but it definently seems to occur.