Different measurements of bowlers

[Matt79]

Yeah, would be an interesting stat to work out, even to see the degree it correllates with public perception of 'greatness'. Maybe could be expressed as a percentage "wickets taken in five+ hauls/total wickets"

eg: Shane Warne is 211/708 = 29.8%
Glenn McGrath is 161/563 = 28.5%. hmmm, maybe not as much of a difference as you'd think there Ikki.
Dennis Lillee is 126/355 = 35.5% - quite a big difference.
Muralitharan is 378/792 = a whopping 47.7%
Hadlee is 201/431 = 46.6%

 

[The Sean]

Kinda using this topic's idea for a different measurement: big hauls. Got the idea from the Lillee thread. Lillee got 7 10fers in 70 tests. For a fast bowler, one that had pretty good competition in his team for about half his career, that's quite incredible.

I'm positive big-hauls, even if they are expensive, are remembered much more fondly than smaller but more economical hauls. These tend to change matches more and for this very reason are more memorable, or laudable. This is kinda exemplified by Lillee IMO.

The proportion of 4fer/5fer/10fer in relation to Tests is an important tool IMO. Albeit it relies on certain other factors to use such a stat to gauge a player properly. Undoubtedly though, these are important. It's a reason why I think Warne often outshined McGrath - or was perceived to have done in certain matches.

You're definitely right in terms of the perception of a big haul - an epic spell of say 7/95 from 35 overs is invariably remembered with more appreciation than 4/50 from 19 overs, for example, despite the latter haul having both a better average and strike rate. In the end I think it comes down to the state of the match and the relative impact that the respective performance had on it, rather than what the odd decimal point here or there says.

This is where Lillee, IMO, had the edge over Garner (and so many other bowlers) in that he was able to impact matches to a greater extent by bowling so many of those epic spells taking the big wickets on the big occasions, and by shouldering the burden of carrying an attack by bowling one more over, and then one more after that. This is no disrespect to Big Bird, who was a magnificent bowler, and to be fair to him he had to share his wickets around a lot - more an indication of the massive effect DKL tended to have over so many matches.

 

[Days of Grace]

I measure it in my ratings by number of 6 wicket hauls per match.

Thinking of changing it to 7 wicket hauls, tbh.

IYO, what considered a good match haul? 6 wickets? 7 wickets? or more?

 

[Migara]

Consider 4 wickets or more per innings

 

[Ikki]

I measure it in my ratings by number of 6 wicket hauls per match.

Thinking of changing it to 7 wicket hauls, tbh.

IYO, what considered a good match haul? 6 wickets? 7 wickets? or more?

I couldn't give you a reasonable/proper answer to that. Is a 6 wicket haul any better than a 4 wicket haul where the latter bowler has taken 4 wickets at tense/important times and the former taking his 6 wickets after the batsmen have already made merry?

 

[Debris]

I think this just probably shows that there is no one stat you can use when judging bowlers and maybe that judging players on stats alone is not really possible. Interesting stats to look at though

 

[Matt79]

^ Exactly the point of this thread. Different stats give you different perspectives, and using those different perspectives in combination you can get a more complete view, but obviously nothing substitutes for actually watching the guys play.