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Thread: Fast bowler survival - rank the best fast bowlers of all time

  1. #1
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Fast bowler survival - rank the best fast bowlers of all time

    I have an idea - let's collectively rank the fast bowlers in history. I have a shortlist of 32 bowlers and I would be happy to add more (however, I'd probably like to keep the number to a multiple of 4 as that makes life a lot easier).

    Rules:

    The way that this will work is that each of the 32 bowlers will face off in a series of round robin votes. Each vote will have 4 bowlers that will be ranked 1 to 4. After each round, the bowler with the lowest score will get eliminated.

    This will give us surviving at the end of each round:

    0 - 32
    1 - 24
    2 - 18

    After round 2, 14 bowlers will have been eliminated. A poll will decide which of these 14 was "most unlucky to have been eliminated". The top two will then reenter the competition and 4 groups of 5 will be formed.

    Round 3 will see 4 bowlers eliminated. Half our bowlers will be left. The bowlers will then be seeded based on previous totals from 1 to 16.

    Single header eliminations will then occur with 1v16, 2v15, 3v14 etc...

    Then quarter finals, then semi finals, then a final. By the end, we should have a new cricketworld fast bowler ranking. In all this means seven rounds of voting. I will open one new thread per round and give 24 hours for each vote, until we hit the quarter finals, at which point I will give 48 hours per vote.

    Fast Bowlers:

    Lohmann
    SF Barnes
    Spofforth
    Tyson
    Larwood
    Lindwall
    Miller
    Lillee
    Roberts
    Marshall
    Holding
    Garner
    Imran
    Waqar
    Wasim
    McGrath
    Davidson
    Ambrose
    Walsh
    Adcock
    Trueman
    Donald
    S Pollock
    Hadlee
    P Pollock
    Bedser
    Mahmood
    Willis
    Statham
    Hall
    Akhtar
    Bishop

    Wild cards:

    Reid
    Bond
    Dev
    Botham
    Steyn
    M Tate
    Snow
    Gregory
    Cowie
    Nissar
    Gillespie

    Any new bowlers will be randomly added to a round 1 group (bringing the total to five bowlers in that group), from which two bowlers will be eliminated.

    Players who end up with the same ranking will be ordered based on a countback of their voting records. An average position per round will be used for the countback. If two players have the same countback a tiebreaker vote will be called for those two players.

    Suggestions? Comments?
    Last edited by stephen; 28-04-2010 at 06:18 AM.

  2. #2
    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Botham at his peak was sensational, but tbf, he ended up with a Career average of 28.5, If he is to be included, bowlers like Kapil, Thomson, Akthar and Gillespee should also be included. My vote would be to exclude Botham.

  3. #3
    International Vice-Captain Faisal1985's Avatar
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    I would certainly add Akhtar to that.
    BE AFRIDI!
    Be VERY AFRIDI!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    I have an idea - let's collectively rank the fast bowlers in history. I have a shortlist of 32 bowlers and I would be happy to add more (however, I'd probably like to keep the number to a multiple of 4 as that makes life a lot easier).

    Rules:

    The way that this will work is that each of the 32 bowlers will face off in a series of round robin votes. Each vote will have 4 bowlers that will be ranked 1 to 4. After each round, the bowler with the lowest score will get eliminated.

    This will give us surviving at the end of each round:

    0 - 32
    1 - 24
    2 - 18

    After round 2, 14 bowlers will have been eliminated. A poll will decide which of these 14 was "most unlucky to have been eliminated". The top two will then reenter the competition and 4 groups of 5 will be formed.

    Round 3 will see 4 bowlers eliminated. Half our bowlers will be left. The bowlers will then be seeded based on previous totals from 1 to 16.

    Single header eliminations will then occur with 1v16, 2v15, 3v14 etc...

    Then quarter finals, then semi finals, then a final. By the end, we should have a new cricketworld fast bowler ranking. In all this means seven rounds of voting. I will open one new thread per round and give 24 hours for each vote, until we hit the quarter finals, at which point I will give 48 hours per vote.

    Fast Bowlers:

    Lohmann
    SF Barnes
    Spofforth
    Tyson
    Larwood
    Lindwall
    Miller
    Lillee
    Roberts
    Marshall
    Holding
    Garner
    Imran
    Waqar
    Wasim
    McGrath
    Davidson
    Ambrose
    Walsh
    Adcock
    Trueman
    Donald
    S Pollock
    Hadlee
    P Pollock
    Bedser
    Botham
    Willis
    Statham
    Hall
    Reid
    Bishop

    Any new bowlers will be randomly added to a round 1 group (bringing the total to five bowlers in that group), from which two bowlers will be eliminated.

    Suggestions? Comments?
    Botham is miles behind of alltime greats.Fazal Mahmood deserves to be in that list.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Faisal1985 View Post
    I would certainly add Akhtar to that.
    An average of 25 is not bad but a good stamina& not being injury prone are one of the essentials of alltime greats.So, based on that,people like Akhtar & Bond are not alltime greats & hence should not be included in this battle.

  6. #6
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BhupinderSingh View Post
    An average of 25 is not bad but a good stamina& not being injury prone are one of the essentials of alltime greats.So, based on that,people like Akhtar & Bond are not alltime greats & hence should not be included in this battle.
    Based on this, Reid also should be excluded.

    Alright, I might include Dev over Reid, but then include Reid, Bond and Akhtar as round 1 wild cards, unless people have a problem with that.

  7. #7
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BhupinderSingh View Post
    Botham is miles behind of alltime greats.Fazal Mahmood deserves to be in that list.
    Added and swapped Botham to "wild card" entry.

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    International Vice-Captain King Pietersen's Avatar
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    DK Lillee > Malcolm Marshall > Everyone else AFAIC.

    Also, do SF Barnes and GA Lohmann really count as fast bowlers? Not taking anything away from their achievements, as I rate them highly, but they're not strictly fast bowlers as such.

  9. #9
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    DK Lillee > Malcolm Marshall > Everyone else AFAIC.

    Also, do SF Barnes and GA Lohmann really count as fast bowlers? Not taking anything away from their achievements, as I rate them highly, but they're not strictly fast bowlers as such.
    For the purposes of this, I am counting them as fast bowlers - their cricinfo profile calls them both medium-fast, which is good enough for me.

    I know that they were probably more akin to cutter/spin bowlers, but they played in a very different era and so it's difficult to categorise them.

  10. #10
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Added Steyn as a wild card. He surely has played enough tests now to be in consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Based on this, Reid also should be excluded.

    Alright, I might include Dev over Reid, but then include Reid, Bond and Akhtar as round 1 wild cards, unless people have a problem with that.
    Reid,Bond,Akhtar,Dev all don't deserve to be in the poll.IMO,you should have a criteria.I would suggest:

    A bowling average of 25 or less and atleast 3.5 wickets per match.
    Last edited by BhupinderSingh; 27-04-2010 at 08:56 AM.

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    Global Moderator Teja.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BhupinderSingh View Post
    An average of 25 is not bad but a good stamina& not being injury prone are one of the essentials of alltime greats.So, based on that,people like Akhtar & Bond are not alltime greats & hence should not be included in this battle.
    The length of Akthar's Career is often grossly underestimated, If Akthar (46 tests) doesn't belong to the debate, neither does Bishop.

  13. #13
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BhupinderSingh View Post
    Reid,Bond,Akhtar,Dev all don't deserve to be in the poll.IMO,you should have a criteria,for instance,I would suggest:

    A bowling average of 25 or less and atleast 3.5 wickets per match.
    Unfortunately this would cut out some people who genuinely deserve to be there, such as Hall and Miller.

    This is why I am taking nominations for wild card entries and have opened this thread up for discussion before I start the votes.

    Kapil Dev is vastly underrated on this forum... His average was as high as it was because he bowled on Indian wickets for the majority of his career. He also took a lot of wickets. Sure, he'll probably be eliminated in round 1, but IMO he deserves to be there (a least as a wild card, which if I am missing anyone obvious I will move him to).

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Pietersen View Post
    DK Lillee > Malcolm Marshall > Everyone else AFAIC.

    Also, do SF Barnes and GA Lohmann really count as fast bowlers? Not taking anything away from their achievements, as I rate them highly, but they're not strictly fast bowlers as such.
    You are insulting Marshall & several other alltime greats by saying Dennis "Greentop Bully" Lillee is a better bowler than them.

  15. #15
    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    Due to popular demand, I have moved Dev down to the wild card entries and Akhtar into the starting 32.

    The only difference between the two is that the wild cards will be in a draw of 5 bowlers in round 1, where two will be eliminated instead of 1.

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