Australia's bowling support cast

[vcs]

This thread idea occurred to me reading some posts on the Chanderpaul thread. I get the feeling Australia's bowling support cast to McGrath and Warne often gets incredibly underrated on this forum, to the extent that if you succeed against Australia when McGrath/Warne aren't playing, "it doesn't count". Going through the Test records of some of the other bowlers who have contributed to Australia's success over the years :

Brett Lee, 310 wickets at 30.81.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Jason Gillespie, 259 wickets at 26.13.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Stuart MacGill, 208 wickets at 29.02.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Stuart Clark, 94 wickets at 23.86.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Michael Kasprowicz, 113 wickets at 32.88.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Damien Fleming, 75 wickets at 25.89.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Colin Miller, 69 wickets at 26.15.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Some random observations :

- How many of the top Test nations would have settled for that bowling squad in the same time-frame? England, NZ and WI - definitely, for my money. India and SL would have loved to have that kind of support for Kumble/Harbhajan and Murali/Vaas.

- Judging purely by their numbers, Kasprowicz seems to have played a lot more Test cricket than he should have, and Fleming was underused. I wonder what the reason was for that.


I have no specific point in this thread, except generally talking about these bowlers, under-rated performances, which one of them was your favourite and so on. I really liked Damien Fleming as an ODI bowler (though he always seemed to win Australia crucial matches at the death when I was cheering for their opponents) and Gillespie as a Test bowler was fantastic.

 

[Noble One]

Fleming struggled to piece more than two-three matches together before falling injured.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Because succeeding against Warne and McGrath in Australia would be like succeeding against the Windies in the 80s and should be greatly noted.

Succeeding against Australia without Warne and McGrath would be like/equal to succeeding against England. Batsman shouldn't be applauded as if they've acchieved something unbelievable if they have succeeded in Australia in the absence of McGrath and Warne.

 

[vcs]

Because succeeding against Warne and McGrath in Australia would be like succeeding against the Windies in the 80s and should be greatly noted.

Succeeding against Australia without Warne and McGrath would be like/equal to succeeding against England. Batsman shouldn't be applauded as if they've acchieved something unbelievable if they have succeeded in Australia in the absence of McGrath and Warne.

I give up. So nothing any Australian batsman has done in the last decade and a half is "unbelievable" or worthy of the highest praise? Why are things so black and white for you?

Anyway, I would like this thread to be mainly about the bowlers mentioned in the starting post, who I believe have been overlooked to some extent because of the brilliance of Warne and McGrath.

 

[GotSpin]

Those bowlers mostly benefited from bowling alongside the McWarne factor. Not to say they were bad bowlers, but it certainly helped

 

[stephen]

I think you forgot one:

Andy Bichel - 19 tests, 58 wickets @ 32.2

Andy Bichel | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

One gets the feeling that MacGill's stats flatter him slightly and that both Bichel and Kasper would have done a lot better if they had regular spots in the Australian side. Flemming was very good too but got injured too regularly. Gillespie was a very good Aussie bowler, who will go down in history one of the best, but a tier below the really top bowlers like McGrath, Lillee, Lindwall, Davidson and Miller.

 

[vcs]

I think you forgot one:

Andy Bichel - 19 tests, 58 wickets @ 32.2

Andy Bichel | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

One gets the feeling that MacGill's stats flatter him slightly and that both Bichel and Kasper would have done a lot better if they had regular spots in the Australian side. Flemming was very good too but got injured too regularly. Gillespie was a very good Aussie bowler, who will go down in history one of the best, but a tier below the really top bowlers like McGrath, Lillee, Lindwall, Davidson and Miller.

Yeah, I thought of him but left him out as I considered him more of an ODI specialist. Still he played his part no doubt.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

I give up. So nothing any Australian batsman has done in the last decade and a half is "unbelievable" or worthy of the highest praise? Why are things so black and white for you?

Er no. The rarity of making runs against McGrath and Warne in Australia is one of highest regard where only few were able to make runs at home and away against them. FTR, the great Australian batsman of the past decade had great success against McGrath and Warne in domestic cricket.

 

[Noble One]

Maybe add Colin Miller to the support cast from the past decade.

First class journeyman medium-pacer turned Australia's best off-spinner since Tim May.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

There is also Mitchell Johnson 155 wickets @ 28.03.This whole Aussie attack is dire without Mcgrath myth is propogated mainly by a couple of posters,who wish to denigrate achievements of batsmen from specific countries.This weak attack/bowlers not at their peak logic will never be used when they talk about their own batsmen.Blatant double standards.

Great post btw

 

[wfdu_ben91]

There is also Mitchell Johnson 155 wickets @ 28.03.This whole Aussie attack is dire without Mcgrath myth is propogated mainly by a couple of posters,who wish to denigrate achievements of batsmen from specific countries.This weak attack/bowlers not at their peak logic will never be used when they talk about their own batsmen.Blatant double standards.

I totally agree. Everytime I get into an arguement about Virender Sehwag, there are several Indians who are exactly like what you just described. Strangely enough there is a Sri Lankan like this aswell, which is kinda odd because most Sri Lankans that I have come across are very nice and are gentlemen. But none the less; thanks for setting the record straight, Avada Kedavra!

+1

 

[Sir Alex]

Those bowlers mostly benefited from bowling alongside the McWarne factor. Not to say they were bad bowlers, but it certainly helped

Lee's best two seasons came after the retirement of the greats. Dunno about others performing without them, maybe someone can do the statsguru.

 

[Sir Alex]

Er no. The rarity of making runs against McGrath and Warne in Australia is one of highest regard where only few were able to make runs at home and away against them. FTR, the great Australian batsman of the past decade had great success against McGrath and Warne in domestic cricket.

At their peaks as well?

 

[GotSpin]

Lee's best two seasons came after the retirement of the greats. Dunno about others performing without them, maybe someone can do the statsguru.

He only had two good years which brought his average down. Quite poor the rest of the time.

 

[Spark]

there is also mitchell johnson 155 wickets @ 28.03.this whole aussie attack is dire without mcgrath myth is propogated mainly by a couple of posters,who wish to denigrate achievements of batsmen from specific countries.this weak attack/bowlers not at their peak logic will never be used when they talk about their own batsmen.blatant double standards.

Great post btw

awta

 

[vcs]

Mitchell Johnson made his debut after McGrath/Warne had retired.

Added Colin Miller to the list, albeit reluctantly though he has a decent average.

 

[DingDong]

awta

+1

 

[Jono]

Gillespie was ****ing awesome.

Loved him.

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Mitchell Johnson made his debut after McGrath/Warne had retired.

.

The thing is virtually every good knock against an attack sans Mcgrath/Warne is automatically shot down.And if they happen to be there then excuses like they were injured blah blah blah are made....

If you are considering only bowlers who played during the M/W era you could add

McDermott 291 wickets @ 28.63
Hughes 212 wickets @ 28.38
Reiffel 104 wickets @ 26.96

 

[NZTailender]

Gillespie was ****ing awesome.

Loved him.

Appreciate him more now that he's finished playing than I did when he was. Also loved Flem, Bich and Reiffel. Have seen few people enjoy playing Test cricket as much as Bich did.