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Thread: Australia's bowling support cast

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    vcs
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    Australia's bowling support cast

    This thread idea occurred to me reading some posts on the Chanderpaul thread. I get the feeling Australia's bowling support cast to McGrath and Warne often gets incredibly underrated on this forum, to the extent that if you succeed against Australia when McGrath/Warne aren't playing, "it doesn't count". Going through the Test records of some of the other bowlers who have contributed to Australia's success over the years :

    Brett Lee, 310 wickets at 30.81.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Jason Gillespie, 259 wickets at 26.13.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Stuart MacGill, 208 wickets at 29.02.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Stuart Clark, 94 wickets at 23.86.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Michael Kasprowicz, 113 wickets at 32.88.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Damien Fleming, 75 wickets at 25.89.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Colin Miller, 69 wickets at 26.15.

    Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

    Some random observations :

    - How many of the top Test nations would have settled for that bowling squad in the same time-frame? England, NZ and WI - definitely, for my money. India and SL would have loved to have that kind of support for Kumble/Harbhajan and Murali/Vaas.

    - Judging purely by their numbers, Kasprowicz seems to have played a lot more Test cricket than he should have, and Fleming was underused. I wonder what the reason was for that.


    I have no specific point in this thread, except generally talking about these bowlers, under-rated performances, which one of them was your favourite and so on. I really liked Damien Fleming as an ODI bowler (though he always seemed to win Australia crucial matches at the death when I was cheering for their opponents) and Gillespie as a Test bowler was fantastic.
    Last edited by vcs; 24-04-2010 at 08:23 AM.

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    International Vice-Captain Noble One's Avatar
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    Fleming struggled to piece more than two-three matches together before falling injured.

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    Because succeeding against Warne and McGrath in Australia would be like succeeding against the Windies in the 80s and should be greatly noted.

    Succeeding against Australia without Warne and McGrath would be like/equal to succeeding against England. Batsman shouldn't be applauded as if they've acchieved something unbelievable if they have succeeded in Australia in the absence of McGrath and Warne.

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    vcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Because succeeding against Warne and McGrath in Australia would be like succeeding against the Windies in the 80s and should be greatly noted.

    Succeeding against Australia without Warne and McGrath would be like/equal to succeeding against England. Batsman shouldn't be applauded as if they've acchieved something unbelievable if they have succeeded in Australia in the absence of McGrath and Warne.
    I give up. So nothing any Australian batsman has done in the last decade and a half is "unbelievable" or worthy of the highest praise? Why are things so black and white for you?

    Anyway, I would like this thread to be mainly about the bowlers mentioned in the starting post, who I believe have been overlooked to some extent because of the brilliance of Warne and McGrath.


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    International Coach GotSpin's Avatar
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    Those bowlers mostly benefited from bowling alongside the McWarne factor. Not to say they were bad bowlers, but it certainly helped
    Mark Waugh
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    International Regular stephen's Avatar
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    I think you forgot one:

    Andy Bichel - 19 tests, 58 wickets @ 32.2

    Andy Bichel | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

    One gets the feeling that MacGill's stats flatter him slightly and that both Bichel and Kasper would have done a lot better if they had regular spots in the Australian side. Flemming was very good too but got injured too regularly. Gillespie was a very good Aussie bowler, who will go down in history one of the best, but a tier below the really top bowlers like McGrath, Lillee, Lindwall, Davidson and Miller.

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    vcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    I think you forgot one:

    Andy Bichel - 19 tests, 58 wickets @ 32.2

    Andy Bichel | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

    One gets the feeling that MacGill's stats flatter him slightly and that both Bichel and Kasper would have done a lot better if they had regular spots in the Australian side. Flemming was very good too but got injured too regularly. Gillespie was a very good Aussie bowler, who will go down in history one of the best, but a tier below the really top bowlers like McGrath, Lillee, Lindwall, Davidson and Miller.
    Yeah, I thought of him but left him out as I considered him more of an ODI specialist. Still he played his part no doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    I give up. So nothing any Australian batsman has done in the last decade and a half is "unbelievable" or worthy of the highest praise? Why are things so black and white for you?
    Er no. The rarity of making runs against McGrath and Warne in Australia is one of highest regard where only few were able to make runs at home and away against them. FTR, the great Australian batsman of the past decade had great success against McGrath and Warne in domestic cricket.

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    International Vice-Captain Noble One's Avatar
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    Maybe add Colin Miller to the support cast from the past decade.

    First class journeyman medium-pacer turned Australia's best off-spinner since Tim May.

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    There is also Mitchell Johnson 155 wickets @ 28.03.This whole Aussie attack is dire without Mcgrath myth is propogated mainly by a couple of posters,who wish to denigrate achievements of batsmen from specific countries.This weak attack/bowlers not at their peak logic will never be used when they talk about their own batsmen.Blatant double standards.

    Great post btw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avada Kedavra View Post
    There is also Mitchell Johnson 155 wickets @ 28.03.This whole Aussie attack is dire without Mcgrath myth is propogated mainly by a couple of posters,who wish to denigrate achievements of batsmen from specific countries.This weak attack/bowlers not at their peak logic will never be used when they talk about their own batsmen.Blatant double standards.
    I totally agree. Everytime I get into an arguement about Virender Sehwag, there are several Indians who are exactly like what you just described. Strangely enough there is a Sri Lankan like this aswell, which is kinda odd because most Sri Lankans that I have come across are very nice and are gentlemen. But none the less; thanks for setting the record straight, Avada Kedavra!

    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Got_Spin View Post
    Those bowlers mostly benefited from bowling alongside the McWarne factor. Not to say they were bad bowlers, but it certainly helped
    Lee's best two seasons came after the retirement of the greats. Dunno about others performing without them, maybe someone can do the statsguru.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Er no. The rarity of making runs against McGrath and Warne in Australia is one of highest regard where only few were able to make runs at home and away against them. FTR, the great Australian batsman of the past decade had great success against McGrath and Warne in domestic cricket.
    At their peaks as well?

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    International Coach GotSpin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Lee's best two seasons came after the retirement of the greats. Dunno about others performing without them, maybe someone can do the statsguru.
    He only had two good years which brought his average down. Quite poor the rest of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by avada kedavra View Post
    there is also mitchell johnson 155 wickets @ 28.03.this whole aussie attack is dire without mcgrath myth is propogated mainly by a couple of posters,who wish to denigrate achievements of batsmen from specific countries.this weak attack/bowlers not at their peak logic will never be used when they talk about their own batsmen.blatant double standards.

    Great post btw
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