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Batsmens with the best average against Australia and West Indies?

SaeedAnwar

U19 Debutant
West Indies had the best bowling attack in the 70's, 80's and Australia has had one of the best bowling attack in 1990's and 2000's

which batsmen had the highest average against these two attacks?
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
West Indies had the best bowling attack in the 70's, 80's and Australia has had one of the best bowling attack in 1990's and 2000's

which batsmen had the highest average against these two attacks?
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...qualmin1=1000;qualval1=runs;spanmax1=31+dec+1

Gavaskar(65), Amiss(74), Chappel(56) & Vishwanath(53) were the ones who averaged over 50 and scored more than 1000 runs against the west Indies. in that period

http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...10;spanmin1=1+jan+1990;spanval1=span;template

SRT(56), Laxman(55), Sehwag(51) and Lara(51) were the ones who averaged over 50 and scored more than 1000 runs against the Australians in that period
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
Amarnath has a brilliant record against WI too
Semi-myth tbh, He played them in 5 series, 3 at home, 2 away.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

He had two good series, one of which(home) he played only 2 games and scored 142 runs with two not-outs resulting in his average being 142.00 in that series. The other good series, he averaged 66 away, which saw some of the best knocks against fast-bowling ever.

He also had one decent series away where he averaged 40.

Based on his previous performances, the Indian team depended and counted on him performing well in the future, In the last 2 series he played against them(Home) he scored 44 runs in 6 games averaging under 5.

Overall, he averaged 38 against them, which I think is a fair gauge of his performances.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Laxman and all the Indians to an extent have had a relatively easy run against Australia over the last fifteen or so years. McGrath played against them very little, and nearly every time Warne came up against them he was out of form, injured or too green.

That is not to say that they batted poorly, only that you have to take statistics with a grain of salt. I hardly think that Laxman has been anywhere near the top ten batsmen of his era.
 

vcs

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Laxman and all the Indians to an extent have had a relatively easy run against Australia over the last fifteen or so years. McGrath played against them very little, and nearly every time Warne came up against them he was out of form, injured or too green.

That is not to say that they batted poorly, only that you have to take statistics with a grain of salt. I hardly think that Laxman has been anywhere near the top ten batsmen of his era.
Laxman has batted excellently against Australia, McGrath or no McGrath, in all conditions. Hell, even his best ODI performances are against Australia. He just loves playing against Australia, full stop.
 

Debris

International 12th Man
Laxman and all the Indians to an extent have had a relatively easy run against Australia over the last fifteen or so years. McGrath played against them very little, and nearly every time Warne came up against them he was out of form, injured or too green.

That is not to say that they batted poorly, only that you have to take statistics with a grain of salt. I hardly think that Laxman has been anywhere near the top ten batsmen of his era.
I would put him in the top 10 talent-wise and talent tends to come through when playing the really good sides. Injuries and application were his downfall.
 

Burgey

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Laxman has batted excellently against Australia, McGrath or no McGrath, in all conditions. Hell, even his best ODI performances are against Australia. He just loves playing against Australia, full stop.
Yeah he does, but I think the point he's making is you cannot just say X player batted well vs Australia in this era, therefore they're the greatest player of all time, or of their era. And if X player scored the bulk of his runs against the attack India faced here their tour before last, you'd be right to bear that in mind to, because half way decent, let alone very good test players could play that attack with a stick of celery on flat wickets.

Laxman's record vs Australia is awesome, and he's rated incredibly highly here - but we tend to rate players highly who do well here, it's a fault of ours, even if their records aren't so great against other teams. I do it too - I rate Laxman enormously highly - imo he's a much,much better player than Ganguly who, one Brisbane ton aside (and it was a good one mind) I thought wasn't very good here at all. And I admit that clouds my judgment of him (Ganguly) a fair bit.

It's why a lot of Aussie cricket fans frankly think Gavaskar wasn't that good - he did well here only against depleted attacks. That's not right of course, he was a superb player, but it's the way many here think of him, especially those of my generation or older who grew up without blanket coverage of international cricket from overseas. They fail to see what the fuss is about. Fortunately with a wider coverage of things now, we can see players against all opposition and better gauge their levels.

Contrast that with the view a lot of people here have of Vaughan, who had a golden series here in 02-03. Many here* rate him very highly, when of course his record overall is, while not poor, hardly outstanding.

I guess it comes down to this - it would be no good scoring a **** load of runs vs Aus in their era of dominance if you failed vs every other test country. Same for the Windies in the 80s. Not saying that's what the fellas being considered here did mind you, but it must be too narrow a criteria I'd say.

*Edit - by "here" I mean this country, rather than CWland :).
 
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stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Burgey summed it up nicely.

My point isn't that Laxman didn't "deserve" the runs or make them "against a strong attack", but that you really do have to be careful when assessing statistics. The Indians, by and large have had the easiest attacks to face in Australia over the last decade or so. That is not to discredit their performance in any way, only to say that statistics alone cannot be used to rate the players.
 

vcs

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Yeah he does, but I think the point he's making is you cannot just say X player batted well vs Australia in this era, therefore they're the greatest player of all time, or of their era. And if X players scored the bulk of his runs agains the attack India faced here their tour before last, you'd be right to bear that in mind to, because half way decent, let alone very good test players could play that attack with a stick of celery on flat wickets.

Laxman's record vs Australia is awesome, and he's rated incredibly highly here - but we tend to rate players highly who do well here, it's a fault of ours, even if their records aren't so great against other teams. I do it too - I rate Laxman enormously highly - imo he's a much,much better player than Ganguly who, one Brisbane ton aside (and it was a good one mind) I thought wasn't very good here at all. And I admit that clouds my judgment of him Ganguly a fair bit.

It's why a lot of Aussie cricket fans frankly think Gavaskar wasn't that good - he did well here only against depleted attacks. That's not right of course, he was a superb player, but it's the way many here think of him, especially those of my generation or older who grew up without blanket coverage of international cricket from overseas.

Contrast that with the view a lot of people here have of Vaughan, who had a golden series here in 02-03. Many here rate him very highly, when of course his record overall is, while not poor, hardly outstanding.

I guess it comes down to this - it would be no good scoring a **** load of runs vs Aus in their era of dominance if you failed vs every other test country. Same for the Windies in the 80s. Not saying that's what the fellas being considered here di mind you, but it must be too narrow a criteria I'd say.
Oh, I totally agree with that. It doesn't make him a great player, however, it is a positive in his favour when you rate him against players of similar caliber. Personally, I think Laxman has more or less fulfilled his potential, he has a balanced record across the board, a bit like Damien Martyn and his average doesn't accurately reflect the value of some of his innings.

And yes, all cricket fans are prone to rating players based on performances against their country.. that's why Ponting sometimes doesn't get the credit he deserves from Indian fans (even though his home record against India is great).
 

Burgey

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Oh, I totally agree with that. It doesn't make him a great player, however, it is a positive in his favour when you rate him against players of similar caliber. Personally, I think Laxman has more or less fulfilled his potential, he has a balanced record across the board, a bit like Damien Martyn and his average doesn't accurately reflect the value of some of his innings.

And yes, all cricket fans are prone to rating players based on performances against their country.. that's why Ponting sometimes doesn't get the credit he deserves from Indian fans (even though his home record against India is great).
Yeah agree with this, but I admit to being a big VVS fan :)
 

Teja.

Global Moderator
IMO, Laxman's record against Australia is slightly overrated and SRT's record is against the same is highly underrated.
 

vcs

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IMO, Laxman's record against Australia is slightly overrated and SRT's record is against the same is highly underrated.
Interested to hear your reasoning behind that. If anything, one could make the opposite argument that Laxman has played more critical innings (281, 148 in Adelaide 2003, 167 in a losing effort in Sydney 2000, crucial little cameos in fourth innings chases in Chennai '01 and Adelaide '03). Sachin has got runs in quite a few draws, especially in Australia. Not that I care, but still.
 

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