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Batting against the best (since 2000)

Zinzan

Zinzan

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Thought it would be interesting to check batting records in the last 10 years exclusively against the 'big 4'; Australia, South Africa, England & India.

Qualification: 1000+ runs

Suppose a good argument could be made for SL being included as well based on their record in the 2000s, but you can always add them at your leisure.


Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Interesting to see Flower >>> over anyone else.

Was also surprised to see Jayawardene & Yousuf up the top as I always thought they were minnow-bashes.

Thoughts?
 
Matt79

Matt79

Global Moderator
With Sri Lanka included.

Brings Flower somewhat back to the fold. Somewhat...

I note re: our discussion in the KP thread, that Clarke appears above any other Aussies, and 7 runs clear of KP. :dry:

Interesting to see how far Kallis falls by this measure (4214 @ 45.8, as opposed to the all inclusive figure of 8728 @ 58.57). Mentally revising my estimation of him downwards as we speak. :ph34r:
 
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wfdu_ben91

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Yeah, Clarke's up there because of a few massive series he had when he came back into the side and cashed in when Australia were cruising (Ashes 06/07 & Sri Lanka). :dry:
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Matt79 said:
Brings Flower somewhat back to the fold. Somewhat...
Click to expand...
Yup, only somewhat...still an average of 70 against quality opposition ain't too shabby :cool:

Matt79 said:
Interesting to see how far Kallis falls by this measure (4214 @ 45.8, as opposed to the all inclusive figure of 8728 @ 58.57). Mentally revising my estimation of him downwards as we speak. :ph34r:
Click to expand...
Indeed, don't think too many would be surprised to see that mind
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Isn't statsguru fun? :p

Wow at Flower though. It boggles the mind just to see how far in front of his countrymen he was in terms of class. And shows that class is class, and that "minnow bashers" like Jayawardene are more than capable against more capable teams.

Matt79 said:


:p
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+1 to you good sir :laugh:
 
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bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
Spark said:
"minnow bashers" like Jayawardene are more than capable against more capable teams.
Click to expand...
seems to do much better at home though. same goes for ponting too. check out the away records for the same period; ricky and brian are a good 20 spots below where they would like to be. when the home record is too far better than their away records, that affects their overall standing in the game. mahela's lack of legendary status must have something to do with this.
 
P

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jayawardene very underrated for me, ok you can bang on about his record away but he really has not had the chance to play much outside the subcontinent in recent years in which he churned out masses of runs againt all class of opposition.
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I think the real key to this being "interesting" is that India is included in the stats. India have had an extremely poor fast bowling attack and Kumble has been ordinary away from home, giving a number of players in this list a big advantage in the average stakes.

If we remove India and only stick to Aus, England and South Africa we get this list:

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

This gives a far stronger indication IMO of who the most impactual batsmen have been (because let's face it, against India it's generally a batting war, with the bowlers that the Indian's face having far more impact on the result than the batsmen that get to plunder the Indian bowling lineup).
 
Matt79

Matt79

Global Moderator
stephen said:
I think the real key to this being "interesting" is that India is included in the stats. India have had an extremely poor fast bowling attack and Kumble has been ordinary away from home, giving a number of players in this list a big advantage in the average stakes.

If we remove India and only stick to Aus, England and South Africa we get this list:

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

This gives a far stronger indication IMO of who the most impactual batsmen have been (because let's face it, against India it's generally a batting war, with the bowlers that the Indian's face having far more impact on the result than the batsmen that get to plunder the Indian bowling lineup).
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Agree with that logic.

If you include Pakistan, who have had a pretty decent bowling attack for a lot of this period, you get:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com.

although whether Pakistan or SL have had the better attack on average over that timeframe, and whether extending it to include either, or both, renders this a bit meaningless, is a different question. In any case, here's that list.http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=1000;qualval1=runs;spanmin1=27+Mar+2000;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
 
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Teja.

Teja.

Global Moderator
stephen said:
I think the real key to this being "interesting" is that India is included in the stats. India have had an extremely poor fast bowling attack and Kumble has been ordinary away from home, giving a number of players in this list a big advantage in the average stakes.

If we remove India and only stick to Aus, England and South Africa we get this list:

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

This gives a far stronger indication IMO of who the most impactual batsmen have been (because let's face it, against India it's generally a batting war, with the bowlers that the Indian's face having far more impact on the result than the batsmen that get to plunder the Indian bowling lineup).
Click to expand...
Australian pitches are generally extremely flat too. Looking at it this way colours Ponting's record to an undeserved extent as he did not exactly dictate terms in India.
 
G.I.Joe

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Excluding India makes no sense. India didn't climb up to #1 over the last decade by not bowling out the opposition.
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
G.I.Joe said:
Excluding India makes no sense. India didn't climb up to #1 over the last decade by not bowling out the opposition.
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26 out of the top 50 match runs aggregates for India were acheived between 2000 and 2010.

Did India have a single bowler who averaged under 30 for the decade? (rhetorical - the answer is no, their best was Harbhajan who averaged a shade over 30 for the decade)

Aus, SA, Eng, Pak, SL, NZ and WI all had a minimum of two bowlers who averaged under 30 in the decade and Bangladesh had one. India couldn't manage any, which is why I think that for this discussion they should be removed.

India's strength is its batting. That has no real effect on their opposition's batting performance, therefore removing India from consideration is fair IMO.
 
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