Mark Waugh overrated?

[satyam]

But dude, I looked up some scorecards on cricinfo and saw he got out to spinners.

Therefore he is a bad player of spin

But dude i watched him play against Kumble,murali and Harbhajan. Who cares what his performance is? If he is Australian he must be good like punter.

 

[GotSpin]

But dude i watched him play against Kumble,murali and Harbhajan. Who cares what his performance is? If he is Australian he must be good like punter.

you have some serious issues with ponting. i think you need counseling

 

[satyam]

you have some serious issues with ponting. i think you need counseling

No i don't need counselling. You must understand waugh was a good batsman but nothing like you consider him to be.

 

[GotSpin]

No i don't need counselling. You must understand waugh was a good batsman but nothing like you consider him to be.

When did I ever say he was anything but a good batsmen?

I just don't believe he was a poor player of spin. I know this might be hard for you too understand though

 

[Cevno]

Mate I watched his whole career and I can tell you he played spin as good as anyone, he may have got out to a silly shot, and did have one shocking run against SL but I can never remember him looking anything but in control against the spinners until he would do something stupid

To be fair having seen him play spin in India ,he looked comfortable in periods against spin,but always had a tendency to get out to spinners.Though he was not as clueless up to Ponting standards ,he wasn't one of the best either.He always seemed to get out caught by the near in fielders.


Wouldn't therfore ,say he was a very good player of spin.He for me was average at best.

His innings of 153 in 1998 at Bangalore on a slowish pitch was excellent ,though.

 

[archie mac]

To be fair having seen him play spin in India ,he looked comfortable in periods against spin,but always had a tendency to get out to spinners.Though he was not as clueless up to Ponting standards ,he wasn't one of the best either.He always seemed to get out caught by the near in fielders.


Wouldn't therfore ,say he was a very good player of spin.He for me was average at best.

His innings of 153 in 1998 at Bangalore on a slowish pitch was excellent ,though.

I just won't accept that, it is not true, he played spin extremely well. I don't think Ponting clueless either, you can't average over 50 in Test cricket and be clueless

 

[satyam]

When did I ever say he was anything but a good batsmen?

I just don't believe he was a poor player of spin. I know this might be hard for you too understand though

He was as good player of spin as was ganguly against short bowling. Even Ganguly scored runs and averages similar to waugh in test and ODI. That doesn't make him a great player of fast bowling.

 

[GotSpin]

He was as good player of spin as was ganguly against short bowling. Even Ganguly scored runs and averages similar to waugh in test and ODI. That doesn't make him a great player of fast bowling.

I don't understand the relevance of this comparison...

 

[satyam]

I don't understand the relevance of this comparison...

That means just like ganguly was an average player of fast bowling ,so was waugh against spin bowling.

 

[GotSpin]

That means just like ganguly was an average player of fast bowling ,so was waugh against spin bowling.

If you say so.

I cbb anymore to be honest

 

[Sir Alex]

Poor Man's Laxman ? Are you kidding I would take Mark Waugh ahead of Lax every single time.

I meant tests only.

 

[zaremba]

another thread bites the dust

 

[BoyBrumby]

another thread bites the dust

Ha, yep.

In a probably doomed attempt to get it back on topic, I think players like Junior tend to be rated over and above their output because people enjoy watching them play more than less aesthetically pleasing batsmen. Cricket is, ultimately, a form of entertainment and Waugh is the kind of player who makes a crowd feel more like an audience. There are batsmen I'd choose over him to bat for my life, but fewer who I'd enjoy watching for the sheer beauty of their batsmanship. Of his fellow right handers maybe only Mick Vaughan and VVS of late have been easier on the eye (IMHO, obv).

 

[NUFAN]

No way would I consider Vaughan's batting more pleasing on the eye, but I loved Waugh, so my views are probably clouded.

Junior was always a batsman who I think thought that as long as he averaged in the 40s he was doing a good job for his country. I wonder if in the end number 4 was his ideal position? Could he have played more crucial innings like brother Steve if he was coming in with the score at 3 or 4 for not many?

One of my favourite Test innings of M Waugh was his 126 in the Windies. I think it was a perfect innings that summed up the Waugh twins. Steve got the kudos for making the double hundred, MWaugh's first mistake was when he got out. Steve was famously dropped pretty early on.

Mark Waugh Overrated? Not to me he's not.

 

[Matt79]

Saying he's poor against spin is well wide of the mark. He was one of the best players of spin of his generation from Australia. If he had a flaw against them, it was that he failed to give them the proper respect. His attitude was that if you were going to shotput the ball at him of a step or two, you could bloody well go fetch it. Obviously this did cost him a few times. But havng grown up playing against the Windies attack, its understandable that he couldn't quite treat offspinners with the respect they sometimes deserved.

His "Audi" run against Sri Lanka was initially an aberration, and by the end of it a mental thing. He described in his book how much the initial failures got to him, and the amount of good-natured crap he got from his teammates, and that he couldn't cope with it, and thus was very distracted.

All players struggled against Murali from time to time tbh.

 

[Noble One]

Cricket is ultimately a form of entertainment. Mark Waugh was the ultimate entertainer, such a pleasure to watch when at the crease. He may not have grafted out the runs of some of his teammates like Steve Waugh, Border and Ponting, but every young kid in Australia during the 90's wanted to bat like Mark Waugh.

What does it matter that he averaged 'only' 41.81, he has the respect of true cricket fans in that he played the big innings when they mattered, he entertained a generation and he made bowling with sunglasses so cool.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Cricket is ultimately a form of entertainment. Mark Waugh was the ultimate entertainer, such a pleasure to watch when at the crease. He may not have grafted out the runs of some of his teammates like Steve Waugh, Border and Ponting, but every young kid in Australia during the 90's wanted to bat like Mark Waugh.

What does it matter that he averaged 'only' 41.81, he has the respect of true cricket fans in that he played the big innings when they mattered, he entertained a generation and he made bowling with sunglasses so cool.

Fair points all round.

On the "only 41.81 ave" tho, it's a thoroughly respectable return IMHO, but to read some posts here one would think he was down with the Ramprakashes and Hicks in the unfulfilled talent ranks. Of his English contemporaries only Robin Smith and Thorpey averaged more.

 

[Shri]

I honestly don't get people admiring batting strokes tbh. I would class people like Jayasuriya, Afridi, Sehwag, Astle, Symonds etc as 'entertainers'. Don't see how Laxman, Waugh etc can be called entertainers along with the aforementioned names.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I honestly don't get people admiring batting strokes tbh. I would class people like Jayasuriya, Afridi, Sehwag, Astle, Symonds etc as 'entertainers'. Don't see how Laxman, Waugh etc can be called entertainers along with the aforementioned names.

One man's meat, etc...

 

[Himannv]

I honestly don't get people admiring batting strokes tbh. I would class people like Jayasuriya, Afridi, Sehwag, Astle, Symonds etc as 'entertainers'. Don't see how Laxman, Waugh etc can be called entertainers along with the aforementioned names.

Different sort of entertainment I reckon. That touch of class as opposed to the boundary per ball approach.