Round table revisited, Lara the best batsmen of modern era

[Athlai]

Does anyone else feel that Ponting is now becoming more a distant 3rd in this debate? Clearly a great batsman but has become more falliable than Lara and Tendulkar in recent years. And as a Kiwi I've always felt we were closer to his wicket than Lara or Tendulkar's.

Hard to split Lara and Tendulkar, in Tests I'd have to say Lara by a small margin and in ODIs I'd say Tendulkar by a large one. This brings them to a point of contention in the middle as I can't decide if its more important to be a little better in Tests or a fair bit better in ODIs.

Lara by a hair maybe.

Also Crowe where does he rate amongst the modern greats? Certainly a player debuted well before his time but at his peak was right up there as Chappell makes pretty clear. I remember adoring Crowe as a child naming my character in any crap 90s computer game after him.

 

[Athlai]

If you take the decade after Crowe finally really matured into the great batsman he'd become (which is rich to take a batsman at their peak I know) which is 1985-94.

Out of batsman who batted in at least 50 innings he had the highest average

Notably this is over huge names like Tendulkar, Border, Miandad, Richardson, Richards, Waughs.

Should Crowe deserve greater comparsion to these acknowledged all-time greats?

 

[Zinzan]

Should Crowe deserve greater comparsion to these acknowledged all-time greats?

He's definitely underrated if folks judge him purely on his overall stats, however still doesn't reach 'All-time' great status for mine, but was certainly "one of the greats of his era" (mid80s-mid90s).

 

[Athlai]

He's definitely underrated if folks judge him purely on his overall stats, however still doesn't reach 'All-time' great status for mine, but was certainly "one of the greats of his era" (mid80s-mid90s).

Yeah I'd say below the Richards, Tendulkars, Laras and Pontings.

 

[Himannv]

Crowe was a fantastic bat and probably one of the best New Zealand has produced over the years. Not really in the class of Lara, Tendulkar and Ponting though. Would rank him quite high but I believe there are few others ahead of him.

 

[Teja.]

Er.... I find bagapath's reasoning more persuasive tbh.

I refer to Bradman as God all the time TBH.

The guy said Toney Grieg et al. were saying Lara were better than Sachin so I was just pointing out the fact that certain people such as Martin Crowe, Barry Richards, Matty Hayden et al. referred to Sachin as the god of cricket. I gave the example to show how his contemparies and ex-players hold not only Lara but also SRT in high regard. I personally find the whole 'god' business a little unneeded to be very honest.

 

[Furball]

Does anyone else feel that Ponting is now becoming more a distant 3rd in this debate? Clearly a great batsman but has become more falliable than Lara and Tendulkar in recent years. And as a Kiwi I've always felt we were closer to his wicket than Lara or Tendulkar's.

2 things which will always count against Ponting are the weight of runs he scored in the 00s as opposed to the 90s, and the fact that he's never had to face his own attack, which for the majority of his career has been by a distance the best attack around.

 

[Teja.]

2 things which will always count against Ponting are the weight of runs he scored in the 00s as opposed to the 90s, and the fact that he's never had to face his own attack, which for the majority of his career has been by a distance the best attack around.

This. Sachin averaged close to 60 and Lara averaged about 50 in the 90s when only two others(Waugh and Gooch) averaged above 50. However in the 00s, Ponting averaged close to 60 but 16 other players also averaged 50+.

EDIT:-Criteria, minimum 3000 runs.

 

[Jono]

If you punish Ponting for not facing his attack (which is a fair point), the same should be done for Viv Richards, and for some of the 90s, Lara too.

I'm hardly Ponting's biggest fan, but I seem to be defending him a bit on these boards lately

 

[Maximus0723]

How was Lara better then Sachin in Tests?

Equal may be, but better...no way.


Also...IMO, Ponting > Lara in tests.
Ponting is underrated on this forum b/c one he comes of as a jerk and two he plays for aussies.

Ponting is amazing vs. pace and has shown ability to play spin(Murli, Saqlain) bar Bhajji.

 

[Jono]

Haha, Ponting may be underrated on this forum (he was treated like a God on here in 2006) but if he is underrated, its not because he's Australian.

Being a South African makes you underrated in general, but not being an Australian.

 

[Teja.]

If you punish Ponting for not facing his attack (which is a fair point), the same should be done for Viv Richards, and for some of the 90s, Lara too.

I'm hardly Ponting's biggest fan, but I seem to be defending him a bit on these boards lately

Considering the fact that Waugh and Lara did not have to face their attacks in the 90s and yet averaged 51-odd compared to Sachin's 59-odd makes Sachin's record in the 90's even more awe-inspiring. The gap between him and 2nd best in the 90s is simply amazing even without considering other factors such as not having the advantage of a stellar bowling team.

 

[Zinzan]

Also...IMO, Ponting > Lara in tests.

Each to their own, for me Lara > both Ponting & Tendulkar in Tests

 

[wfdu_ben91]

2 things which will always count against Ponting are the weight of runs he scored in the 00s as opposed to the 90s, and the fact that he's never had to face his own attack, which for the majority of his career has been by a distance the best attack around.

Ponting's best performances in the 90s were against the best bowling attacks of the 1990s (averaged 63 vs Pakistan, 50 vs South Africa and 40 against Windies). It was only his performances against the weaker teams which brought his average down. (He averaged under 40 vs England, India, New Zealand and Zimbabwe). Nevertheless, averaging 45 in your early 20's in what was arguably the strongest decade as far as bowlers go, is no mean feat. Albeit, he did bat 5-6 which takes some credit away, but considering he was in his early 20's during the 90's and averaged mid 40's, suggest that his stats of the 00's are no fluke.

 

[bagapath]

If you take the decade after Crowe finally really matured into the great batsman he'd become (which is rich to take a batsman at their peak I know) which is 1985-94.

since this is from my high school days i can tell you without spending too much time looking at the stats that the best batsmen between 85 and 94 were gooch, richardson, boon, border and, above everyone else, martin crowe. tendulkar's glory years were ahead of him. age was catching up with richards and miandad.

in that era, crowe was as respected as gooch, who played well above what the first half of his long career had slotted him into and allan border, whose ability to score hundreds dried up for a good four years but somehow he kept churning out half century scores keeping his batting avg floating above 50.

crowe was not a gritty customer like border nor did he make his drive to succeed as obvious as gooch. he was no richards either in flaying attacks around the park. but, boy, could he play shots! from a well balanced stance that was modeled on greg chappell he would use his polished technique, like rahul dravid in future, to unleash strokes all around the wicket. i dont remember him ever looking ugly or too uncomfortable. he really had greatness written all over him. how i wish he hadnt toured SA and India at the fag end of his career. had he retired before those two ill fated tours, his average would have ended closer to harvey, walters and boycott, where he belongs, and not a good 5 run below the 50 run mark, which I am sure was what he would have been satisfied with

 

[Athlai]

Great read but I reckon Crowe was happy to continue touring for New Zealand, even past his prime he was one of our best options.

 

[Zinzan]

since this is from my high school days i can tell you without spending too much time looking at the stats that the best batsmen between 85 and 94 were gooch, richardson, boon, border and, above everyone else, martin crowe. tendulkar's glory years were ahead of him. age was catching up with richards and miandad.

in that era, crowe was as respected as gooch, who played well above what the first half of his long career had slotted him into and allan border, whose ability to score hundreds dried up for a good four years but somehow he kept churning out half century scores keeping his batting avg floating above 50.

crowe was not a gritty customer like border nor did he make his drive to succeed as obvious as gooch. he was no richards either in flaying attacks around the park. but, boy, could he play shots! from a well balanced stance that was modeled on greg chappell he would use his polished technique, like rahul dravid in future, to unleash strokes all around the wicket. i dont remember him ever looking ugly or too uncomfortable. he really had greatness written all over him. how i wish he hadnt toured SA and India at the fag end of his career. had he retired before those two ill fated tours, his average would have ended closer to harvey, walters and boycott, where he belongs, and not a good 5 run below the 50 run mark, which I am sure was what he would have been satisfied with

Top assessment that

 

[zaremba]

Ponting is underrated on this forum b/c one he comes of as a jerk and two he plays for aussies.

I suppose it's wrong to count the same thing against him twice.

 

[SaeedAnwar]

lara is over rated by many, sachin is better. Yes lara was perhaps more exciting and better at entertaining, but as a batsmen sachin is ahead for sure

 

[Teja.]

I suppose it's wrong to count the same thing against him twice.