• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Worlds greatest team

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Why do you need footage for this? I mean it's a pretty safe assumption to say that if the opposing team had a certain bowler then Bradman faced him enough for both to work the other out.
Lol the footage is needed to see exactly who he was up against when he made those "amazing" scores, if Lara and Tendulker played against Zimbabwe and Bangledash in for their entire careers their stats would be way better than the ones they've got now wouldn't they? so it's only fair to be fully clued up on who exactly Bradman was playing against imo.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
Lol the footage is needed to see exactly who he was up against when he made those "amazing" scores, if Lara and Tendulker played against Zimbabwe and Bangledash in for their entire careers their stats would be way better than the ones they've got now wouldn't they? so it's only fair to be fully clued up on who exactly Bradman was playing against imo.
There's other ways to clue up on who he played against other than watching on TV.

Are you declaring that thousands of writers have lied through their teeth when discussing the quality of bowlers in order to make Bradman look better.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Lol the footage is needed to see exactly who he was up against when he made those "amazing" scores, if Lara and Tendulker played against Zimbabwe and Bangledash in for their entire careers their stats would be way better than the ones they've got now wouldn't they? so it's only fair to be fully clued up on who exactly Bradman was playing against imo.
Didn't GS already do that? He showed that minus Bradman the bowlers he faced would have been statistically excellent. Some were statistically excellent even with Bradman - Verity, Voce, Larwood, Bowes... all averaging under 30 against a team which had someone who made 150 more usually than not.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
No you need footage to see WHO EXACTLY HE WAS FACING when he achieved those averages!!, which is the gist of my point, and furthermore Bradman didn't START his career in 1948 did he? 8-) the damage was well done by the time he retired!!, Sobers was 18 when he made his debut and when his genius started to come through the competition was strong indeed.
No you don't. If you know one bowler was the best in the world at one time, and another at another time, you can look at how they did across that stretch of time, with their contemporaries, and look at their stats and see how it ranges from one best to the other best. Fact is, relatively, it didn't move much at all. Especially enough to deny an average of 99.94. You have no case.

BTW, Bradman was averaging 114 in the 1948 year, so what damage was done? He was ploughing through them, even at that age. Ironically, Bradman missed his prime in the war.

So standards did not suddenly go to crap. Neither Sobers nor his teammates for many years like the 3 Ws could get anywhere near that average.
 
Last edited:

WindieWeathers

International Regular
This convo is going round in circles and i can't be bothered to quote everyone, firstly G-S you've already confessed that you are oblivious to the standard of fielding so like i said even if a few of the bowlers that Bradman faced were "good" it doesn't make any difference if the fielding back then was lackluster!!, which is why WE NEED FOOTAGE to see the bigger picture Spark!!, also ikki Sobers started around seven years after Bradman retired, a lot can change in that space of time and he was hardly gonna set the place on fire as an 18 year old was he?!! 8-)

I ain't trying to offend the Aussie fans it's just MY OPINION, if you believe Bradman is the greatest then good for you, many people like myself just don't agree with that notion, it's not a crime.
 
Last edited:

satyam

School Boy/Girl Captain
IMO WI quicks of Marshall,GARNER,Holding, Roberts was the greatest bowling quartret of all time. Australia at its peak could never win a series in India. They had to depend upon rain and injured Tendulkar to get a 2-1 series victory. Whereas WI whitewashed a formidable India in 1984 .

And the effect of Bradman is overrated. He would have run out of batting batting partners. And the effect of warne is also overrated. Lara would have destroyed him. And WI did not need spinner when they could whitewash India in India without a spinner.And we all know how well Australia played Harbhajan and Kumble in India
WI only need to make sure there were neutral umpires and no catch pact with opposition captain. WI 5-0 victory.

And i know that mods will give me a warning because i stated the truth. And i offended the sentiments of Aussie fans.
 
Last edited:

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
It's not a crime to have a differing opinion but:

If you're going to declare that the opposing bowlers that Bradman faced were not of top quality can you at least refer to the list of top quality bowlers that were around then and provide some specific individual criticism rather than degrading the whole era as one of poor quality.

Regardless of what the standard was, the level of fielding is highly unlikely to change in under a decade.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
IMO WI quicks of Marshall,GARNER,Holding, Roberts was the greatest bowling quartret of all time. Australia at its peak could never win a series in India. They had to depend upon rain and injured Tendulkar to get a 2-1 series victory. Whereas WI whitewashed a formidable India in 1984 .

And the effect of Bradman is overrated. He would have run out of batting batting partners. And the effect of warne is also overrated. Lara would have destroyed him. And WI did not need spinner when they could whitewash India in India without a spinner.And we all know how well Australia played Harbhajan and Kumble in India
WI only need to make sure there were neutral umpires and no catch pact with opposition captain. WI 5-0 victory.

And i know that mods will give me a warning because i stated the truth. And i offended the sentiments of Aussie fans.
Congratulations. Another worthless post :) Thanks for coming though
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
This convo is going round in circles and i can't be bothered to quote everyone, firstly G-S you've already confessed that you are oblivious to the standard of fielding so like i said even if a few of the bowlers that Bradman faced were "good" it doesn't make any difference if the fielding back then was lackluster!!, which is why WE NEED FOOTAGE to see the bigger picture Spark!!, also ikki Sobers started around seven years after Bradman retired, a lot can change in that space of time and he was hardly gonna set the place on fire as an 18 year old was he?!! 8-)

I ain't trying to offend the Aussie fans it's just MY OPINION, if you believe Bradman is the greatest then good for you, many people like myself just don't agree with that notion, it's not a crime.
For a lot to change...it would have to change enough that a batsman who is averaging 99.94 could suddenly become regular. Such a change would be akin to a revolution in the sport. Batting averages went up from 90s to 00s merely a few points and people complain about easiness in batting. Imagine what it would have needed to do to make up some 50 points in superiority Bradman had over almost all batsmen.

It didn't happen, you need to read up more because you're either biased or just ignorant on this matter. Ironically, one can use your flawed argument against you: no one saw much of the bowlers in question, so how do we know they weren't 10x better than Marshall?
 
Last edited:

WindieWeathers

International Regular
I simply haven't got the time to critique those bowlers when question marks remain over the standard of the fielding, plus if there was only one or two decent bowlers per side that's hardly gonna make a difference imo, put a prime Murali in Bermuda's side and Bermuda will still be poor.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
I simply haven't got the time to critique those bowlers when question marks remain over the standard of the fielding, plus if there was only one or two decent bowlers per side that's hardly gonna make a difference imo, put a prime Murali in Bermuda's side and Bermuda will still be poor.
I listed 10 bowlers of top quality. Most were from England. Its not like they were spread to one per team.

All I'm hearing is that you haven't bothered to read anything at all honestly.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I simply haven't got the time to critique those bowlers when question marks remain over the standard of the fielding, plus if there was only one or two decent bowlers per side that's hardly gonna make a difference imo, put a prime Murali in Bermuda's side and Bermuda will still be poor.
The question can have either answer for someone who doesn't know. So you who think it's a question so you should be open to the possibility of both. Those that know, know. Simply put, the theory that fielding was going to make Bradman average some 50 points less is laughable.

On your other point: few, if any, batsmen in history faced 4 all-time great bowlers at the same time. That's something you can question all batsmen on.

It's not that the WIndies quartet wouldn't stop Australians (including Bradman) from scoring their usual load of runs; they'll most likely be much more miserly. It's that the same principle goes for the WIndies batsmen. And if all these batsmen, let's say, average under their career average by 10 points, due to the quality of bowling being faced, that still isn't enough to take away from Bradman's undoubtable contribution. For even if Bradman averages 30 points less, he'd still be far and away the best batsman of the lot. Yet keep perspective, if you lessened 30 points for any other batsman in the two teams said batsman's average would be crippled.
 
Last edited:

Spark

Global Moderator
IMO WI quicks of Marshall,GARNER,Holding, Roberts was the greatest bowling quartret of all time. Australia at its peak could never win a series in India. They had to depend upon rain and injured Tendulkar to get a 2-1 series victory. Whereas WI whitewashed a formidable India in 1984 .

And the effect of Bradman is overrated. He would have run out of batting batting partners. And the effect of warne is also overrated. Lara would have destroyed him. And WI did not need spinner when they could whitewash India in India without a spinner.And we all know how well Australia played Harbhajan and Kumble in India
WI only need to make sure there were neutral umpires and no catch pact with opposition captain. WI 5-0 victory.

And i know that mods will give me a warning because i stated the truth. And i offended the sentiments of Aussie fans.
Words cannot describe the magnitude of ignorance in this post.

Sometimes I have to wonder at certain people. They seem to view the achievements of anyone Australian as A. Luck (I mean, all the good bowlers/batters just decided not to play when our good players were around, right?) or B. Cheating.

I simply haven't got the time to critique those bowlers when question marks remain over the standard of the fielding, plus if there was only one or two decent bowlers per side that's hardly gonna make a difference imo, put a prime Murali in Bermuda's side and Bermuda will still be poor.
Why do assume fielding was poor during Bradman's era? Just as I don't assume fielding was poor during Sobers'.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
For a lot to change...it would have to change enough that a batsman who is averaging 99.94 could suddenly become regular. Such a change would be akin to a revolution in the sport. Batting averages went up from 90s to 00s merely a few points and people complain about easiness in batting. Imagine what it would have needed to do to make up some 50 points in superiority Bradman had over almost all batsmen.

It didn't happen, you need to read up more because you're either biased or just ignorant on this matter. Ironically, one can use your flawed argument against you: no one saw much of the bowlers in question, so how do we know they weren't 10x better than Marshall?
Erm maybe the quality improved after Bradman retired?!! maybe players actually took the game a lot more seriously as the sport developed?!! and you can harp on about the bowlers all day but a question mark about the fielding remains and clearly you haven't got a clue about how the standard was back then,

I'll repeat what i said in my last post because it seems to have slipped your attention, thinking Bradman wasn't the best IS NOT A CRIME!!, it's simply MY OPINION.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
Erm maybe the quality improved after Bradman retired?!! maybe players actually took the game a lot more seriously as the sport developed?!! and you can harp on about the bowlers all day but a question mark about the fielding remains and clearly you haven't got a clue about how the standard was back then,
This is clearly all speculation with little proof or evidence
 

Top