Best cricketer in their side

[wfdu_ben91]

Gul is definately not any worse then Anderson, who is easily England's best pace bowler (which in all honestly doesn't say much). Both are capable of bowling unplayable delieveries when at their best; but are also mentally weak as piss when things aren't going their way.

 

[GIMH]

On its day, our attack is up there with the best

On their off-days, it's among the worst

They never really seem to bother with the middle bit

In terms of what it's capable of, I think our attack can be one of the best but they need to go and get some more consistency. Broad is only young and is getting there, Onions is fairly inexperienced too. Anderson is a lot better than he was, still must only be about 27/28 and coming into his own. Swanneh is about 30/31, and he's had about two bad Tests in his whole career, what a champ

In other words, give it two years and it'll be the undisputed best attack in the world

 

[Athlai]

One day GIMH all of a sudden realises the future prospects of England aren't as cheerful as he hopes them to be.

His head immediately explodes.

 

[King Pietersen]

Umar Gul > Anderson, Onions, Broad, Sidebottom, Finn

And his Pakistan's 3rd seamer.

Doesn't say much for England's bowlers that Pakistan's seamers have lower bowling averages and they play in dire conditions for bowlers whilst the poms get to bowl in England.

Asif is the best bowler in the world at the moment, followed by Steyn and then Bollinger.

Gul averages 34.62, Aamer 42.38, Kaneria 34.27 and Asif 23.20 in comparison to; Onions who averages 31.03, Broad 36.15, Swann 29.67 and Anderson 34.81. Pakistan's attacks overall bowling average is 33.6175 whereas England's is 32.915. The seamers have a marginally superior bowling average to England's (due to Asif's superb record), but as a full attack, England's bowlers have a lower average.

I also don't agree with Doug Bollinger being the 3rd best bowler in the world either. Graeme Swann is definitely in the top 3 for mine.

GIMH's right too, when our attack has a good day, we have one of the best attacks in the world. The problem is, they're nowhere near consistent enough. If we could get Anderson, Broad, Onions and Swann all bowling at their best form for a decent period of time, we could definitely challenge the best sides in the world on a more consistent basis.

 

[Athlai]

Asif >> Anderson
Aamer >= Onions (personally I'd take Aamer but debatable)
Gul >= Broad (Broad is capable of special things but Gul more consistent which is odd since he is an inconsistent bowler)
Kaneria << Swann

Two equal measures vs. two far superiors

 

[wfdu_ben91]

It's pretty simple,

Asif is more then twice as good as England's best bowler.
Aamer is a much more convincing bowler then Broad (although Aamer's probably older then Broad).
Gul is definately better then Onions and on par with Anderson.
And Swann is probably slightly ahead of Kaneria and Ajmal.

Therefore, Pakistan's attack last Summer is descively better then England's potential attack for the Ashes. If Flintoff still played then it'd be more of a debate, but Pakistan's attack would still be better. And FTW,

Bollinger > Swann

 

[GIMH]

Firstly, there isn't a bowler alive that's 'twice as good' as our best bowler

What exactly makes Aamer more convincing than Broad?

And as for Swann being 'slightly' ahead of Kaneria and Ajmal, lulz

srs

 

[wfdu_ben91]

Asif averages 22-23 with the ball, Anderson averages 34-35, Broad averages 35-36... that's like comparing a batsman that averages 56 to a batsman that averages 37-38 (ie Tendulkar/Ponting vs Atherton/Hussain).

Aamer looks far more dangerous bowler then Broad, bowlers quicker, more consistent and more likely to bowl a potential wicket-taking delievery.

Swann is only slightly better then Kaneria. Similar averages, but Kaneria has maintained over a long period of time.

 

[Spark]

For us... well, isn't it a bit of a silly distinction to have A best cricketer in your team? Batsmen against bowlers, apples against oranges, and a team needs at least two of both to even play.

So.

Batting - Clarke. Maybe Katich as well. But Clarke will get better over time, he still has one or two things to work out and he's only 28.
Bowling - Johnson, Bollinger hasn't been around long enough to be considered IMO. I do realise that this means Johnson wins by default but so be it.

However while Ponting's batting has become increasingly erratic I don't think we should ignore his value as a leader and inspiration for his team. Probably half the reason why no one in high places is even thinking about tapping him on the shoulder yet unless certain whispers have failed to reach my ears.

 

[King Pietersen]

Asif averages 22-23 with the ball, Anderson averages 34-35, Broad averages 35-36... that's like comparing a batsman that averages 56 to a batsman that averages 37-38 (ie Tendulkar/Ponting vs Atherton/Hussain).

Aamer looks far more dangerous bowler then Broad, bowlers quicker, more consistent and more likely to bowl a potential wicket-taking delievery.

Swann is only slightly better then Kaneria. Similar averages, but Kaneria has maintained over a long period of time.

Ben in hugely under-rating England players shocker. Swann's ranked the 2nd best bowler in the world according to the ICC rankings behind only Dale Steyn. Broad and Anderson are also in the top 15. Kaneria's at 16, with Gul down at 24.

Also, is Aamer notably quicker than Broad? They've always looked to operate at basically the same pace when I've seen them. Broad's more than capable of bowling 90mph+ consistently, though generally operates at between 84 and 87mph.

 

[Athlai]

Ben in hugely under-rating England players shocker. Swann's ranked the 2nd best bowler in the world according to the ICC rankings behind only Dale Steyn. Broad and Anderson are also in the top 15. Kaneria's at 16, with Gul down at 24.

Also, is Aamer notably quicker than Broad? They've always looked to operate at basically the same pace when I've seen them. Broad's more than capable of bowling 90mph+ consistently, though generally operates at between 84 and 87mph.

Aamer is easily quicker. Constantly above 140 basically. He was a little bit slower in the Australian Tests, probably because he had never bowled that much in his life. Certainly looked very tired in the third Test.

 

[Manee]

Faisal Iqbal scoring a century = low scoring

Nah not buying that.

By and large, low scoring, three innings vs one.

 

[Manee]

On its day, our attack is up there with the best

On their off-days, it's among the worst

They never really seem to bother with the middle bit

In terms of what it's capable of, I think our attack can be one of the best but they need to go and get some more consistency. Broad is only young and is getting there, Onions is fairly inexperienced too. Anderson is a lot better than he was, still must only be about 27/28 and coming into his own. Swanneh is about 30/31, and he's had about two bad Tests in his whole career, what a champ

In other words, give it two years and it'll be the undisputed best attack in the world

I still do believe that Swann carries the England attack, making a breakthrough whenever it is needed.

 

[GIMH]

LOL @ Ben using Asif's average for one point and ignoring Broad's average for the other. Nice consistent argument there Ben

 

[Jono]

Aus- Shane Watson ()
Ban-Shakib
Eng- Strauss
Ind- Sehwag
NZL-Vettori
Pak-Asif
SA-Kallis
SL-Sangakarra
WI-Gayle (right now, I believe Chanders will be back)

 

[wfdu_ben91]

LOL @ Ben using Asif's average for one point and ignoring Broad's average for the other. Nice consistent argument there Ben

Comparing averages with someone who averages 40 to someone who averages 36 isn't as ridiculous as comparing the guy with the 36 average to someone who averages 23.

Needless to say, Asif looks as good as his stats suggest, Aamer is probably better then his average and Broad's bowling average is pretty accurate.

Didn't you see Aamer's drop catch tally?

 

[GIMH]

Who said any of our seamers were as good as Asif?

All I said was that labelling any of them 'twice as good' was ridiculous.

I'm not arguing either way for Broad or Aamer, just that you can either use averages or not, but you can't use averages for one and then not the other. I don't even care if you manipulate or doctor the stats, at least you would then be taking a consistent approach.

Broad doesn't need to worry about dropped catches as when he's bowling well he just cleans batsmen up or gets them lbw

As for his average being accurate, nonsense. If you don't think he's improved since his first year in Test cricket then you're deluded.

 

[Athlai]

Broad doesn't need to worry about dropped catches as when he's bowling well he just cleans batsmen up or gets them lbw

This perked my curiosity about Aamer again.
Bowled - 4
LBW - 2
Caught - 15

Nothing to outrageous here but when I looked at his batsman dismissed... there isn't a single tailender!!!

Warnapura, Sangakkara (2), Dilshan, Paranavitana, Jayawardene, McIntosh, Guptill (3), Flynn, Fulton, Taylor, Ponting (2), Hussey (2), Clarke, North, Haddin, Watson

What the hecks up with that?

 

[Jono]

Interesting.

I like Aamer, but if he could dismiss the tail, Pakistan may have won in Sydney

 

[GIMH]

Ponting's practically a tailender these days