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Thread: Jacques Kallis - Still Underrated?

  1. #1
    State Regular Maximus0723's Avatar
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    Jacques Kallis - Still Underrated?

    Man, I never hear about him when talking about all time greats. IMO, he deserves to be in top 15. To me, as player, he is better then Lara, Ponting, et al. He has shown that he can play on seaming tracks (record in SA) and spinning tracks (record in subcontinent).

    He is also very good with the ball. Has > then 500 international wickets.

    Yes, I know he is lot better against bad teams but so are many other greats but this guy is also amazing with the ball.

    Batting--Test
    Batting--ODI

    Bowling--Test
    Bowling--ODI
    Last edited by Maximus0723; 28-03-2010 at 11:42 PM.
    Greatest Test XI::: S Gavaskar, M Hayden, D Bradman*, S Tendulkar, A Border, G Sobers, A Gilchrist, I Khan, S Warne, M Marshall, G McGrath
    Reserves: B Richards, V Richards, A Knott, M Muralitharan

    Greatest ODI XI::: A Gilchrist, S Tendulkar, R Ponting*, V Richards, M Dhoni, M Bevan, S Pollock, W Akram, S Warne, J Garner, M Muralitharan, A Donald
    Reserves: A deVilliars, B Lara, R Hadlee, S Warne

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    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Interesting to compare to thoughts of about 4 or 5 years ago.

    Jacques Kallis - Most Underrated Allrounder

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    Had he been around 40 years ago and achieved the same standards he would have had songs written about him. In today's game there are a lot of very ordinary batsman with very high averages and he sits in that pack.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Just seems to miss that touch of brilliance, but still a class act
    You know it makes sense.


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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Had he been around 40 years ago and achieved the same standards he would have had songs written about him. In today's game there are a lot of very ordinary batsman with very high averages and he sits in that pack.
    I don't think he gets anywhere near enough credit for his home record.
    ​63*

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    International Captain Himannv's Avatar
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    I think he's a decent bowler, but I have a tendency of looking only at his batting as he's really phenomenal in that aspect of his game. Its hard to see where to place him, even in terms of South Africe alone. Is he better than Dudley Nourse, Greame Pollock and Barry Richards? Its hard to say for me, but one thing is sure, he's right up there with them as far as I'm concerned.

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    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac View Post
    Just seems to miss that touch of brilliance, but still a class act
    Not sure what else he has to do to have that touch of brilliance.
    ★★★★★

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himannv View Post
    I think he's a decent bowler, but I have a tendency of looking only at his batting as he's really phenomenal in that aspect of his game. Its hard to see where to place him, even in terms of South Africe alone. Is he better than Dudley Nourse, Greame Pollock and Barry Richards? Its hard to say for me, but one thing is sure, he's right up there with them as far as I'm concerned.
    Barry Richards no chance (not to say he's miles behind him, just that there's clearly division between the two); might be close to Pollock and Nourse Jnr. though.

    Must be said that Kallis' performances in the last year have gone some way toward assuaging some of the doubts I've always held about him. Nonetheless, he rarely made all that many difficult runs from 2001/02 onwards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson View Post
    Had he been around 40 years ago and achieved the same standards he would have had songs written about him. In today's game there are a lot of very ordinary batsman with very high averages and he sits in that pack.


    Yeah, despite the fact that he looks allot more convincing on footage then 90% of the batsman that have come before him, faces faster bowlers and has played on bowler friendly South African wickets for the majority of his career.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    He hasn't. SAfrican decks for a fair amount of Kallis' career have had very little in them for seamers (or spinners). He also doesn't face faster bowlers than anyone in the 1980s, 1970s, 1960s or 1950s did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    He hasn't. SAfrican decks for a fair amount of Kallis' career have had very little in them for seamers (or spinners). He also doesn't face faster bowlers than anyone in the 1980s, 1970s, 1960s or 1950s did.
    Apart from sticky wickets, South African pitches over the past decade haven't been any less bowler friendly then any other pitches from past generations. From what I'm seen on footage, there is hardly much difference at all from pitches before 2000 and pitches of today. Batsman are just allot more technically better nowadays.

    Pretty sure he did face faster bowlers considering that only 3 or 4 of the world's fastest bowlers in the 1979 Worlds Fastest Bowler competition could touch 150kph and yet more then a handful of bowlers in Australia alone can touch 150kph.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    Apart from sticky wickets, South African pitches over the past decade haven't been any less bowler friendly then any other pitches from past generations. From what I'm seen on footage, there is hardly much difference at all from pitches before 2000 and pitches of today. Batsman are just allot more technically better nowadays.
    From what I've seen on footage and\or read (which is just about every Test pitch in South Africa in the last decade or more) there were very few seam-friendly decks from 2001/02 to 2005/06. There have been a few once again from 2006/07 onwards, but still, not really as many as I'd like there to be, and as there were up to 2000/01.

    And the sticky wicket is a thing of the long past. Pitches in South Africa have been being covered for many decades.
    Pretty sure he did face faster bowlers considering that only 3 or 4 of the world's fastest bowlers in the 1979 Worlds Fastest Bowler competition could touch 150kph and yet more then a handful of bowlers in Australia alone can touch 150kph.
    That competition is completely meaningless. Methods of speed measurement were different then to what they are now. There is no way one can compre the speeds of bowlers in the 1970s (or any other time) to post-1998, because timing technology is different \ unreliable.

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    International Coach Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Barry Richards no chance (not to say he's miles behind him, just that there's clearly division between the two); might be close to Pollock and Nourse Jnr. though.
    Interesting take, I've always considered G Pollock to be marginally ahead of B Richards..even if by just a smidgen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    From what I've seen on footage and\or read (which is just about every Test pitch in South Africa in the last decade or more) there were very few seam-friendly decks from 2001/02 to 2005/06. There have been a few once again from 2006/07 onwards, but still, not really as many as I'd like there to be, and as there were up to 2000/01.
    Majority of the Tests that I've watched in South Africa over the past decade have had a pit innit for the past decade and I definately wouldn't classify them as flat. Of course, I've given examples in the past where I've seen movement off the pitch and swing through the air, but you've completely written it off.

    And the sticky wicket is a thing of the long past. Pitches in South Africa have been being covered for many decades.

    That competition is completely meaningless. Methods of speed measurement were different then to what they are now. There is no way one can compre the speeds of bowlers in the 1970s (or any other time) to post-1998, because timing technology is different \ unreliable.
    But they corrected it, so it is relevant.

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    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    I like Kallis. I believe that as a cricketer he is one of the best role models an aspiring player can have. His batsmanship is based on concentration, not overreaching himself and sticking to the textbook shots such as playing the straight bat. His bowling is good line and length stuff and his physical power (also something that mere mortals can work on) elevates him above the norm in both areas.

    However, he is not a God in any area, if that's what you mean. But combine all he brings to a team and he is a great player.
    World XI Since 1990 -

    1. Gooch 2. Dravid 3. Ponting 4. Tendulkar 5. Lara 6. Kallis 7. Gilchrist 8. Akram 9. Warne 10. Ambrose 11. McGrath

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