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View Poll Results: Should NZ persevere with Chris Martin?

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  • Yes; he's still one of NZ's best pace bowlers, regardless of his batting/fielding

    3 10.71%
  • No; he's not penetrative enough with the ball anymore & his batting & fielding make him a liability

    25 89.29%
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Thread: Should NZ persevere with Chris Martin?

  1. #16
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRK-NANNES View Post
    Yeh nah, he's a year behind the others. Probably will be round Nov next year.

    The Hamish Bennett bandwagon is taking passengers for its imminent roll-out
    With a first class average of 37 those seats might be a hard sell. Although to be fair to him, he is a player of rare ineptitude with the bat (averaging 0.3 this season). He's a worthy successor to Martin in that sense at least.
    Last edited by Bahnz; 29-03-2010 at 05:05 AM.
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  2. #17
    International Captain Himannv's Avatar
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    IMO, for the moment he can still contribute but they certainly need to field a couple of young quicks once in a while and try to get them ready. Not sure what kind of local talent is available to them though.

  3. #18
    U19 12th Man lockton2skipper's Avatar
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    chris has been a great workhorse for new zealand but his time is about up. time for the next generation. a fit andy mckay would be a usefull stop gap.

  4. #19
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltman View Post
    Nah, still about 18 months to go, I believe. His FC record hasn't been flash this season anyway, has it? Genuine question, BTW - haven't been following that closely.

    Top Ten Pace Bowling Wicket Takers

    GW Aldridge 42 @ 20.16 SR 37.9
    MD Bates 37 @ 25.40 SR 54.4
    EP Thompson 34 @ 24.08 SR 49
    BJ Arnel 29 @ 19.58 SR 48.6
    MJ Mason 28 @ 22.78 SR 49.1
    N Wagner 26 @ 36.69 SR 64.7
    WC McSkimming 23 @ 28.39 SR 54.2
    BC Hiini 22 @ 26.68 SR 56.8
    SR Wells 20 @ 23.55 SR 41.8
    MJ Tugaga 20 @ 38.35 SR 52.2

    Top Ten Pace Bowling Wicket Takers Last Year

    DR Tuffey 27 @ 20.96
    LJ Shaw 26 @ 23.92
    HK Bennett 26 @ 29.26
    MJ McClenaghan 26 @ 42.26
    AM Ellis 23 @ 23.78
    EP Thompson 23 @ 31.95
    AJ McKay 23 @ 34.34
    de Grandhomme 21 @ 24.19
    N Wagner 21 @ 33.33
    MJ Harvie 19 @ 31

    Out of those guys I'd think that Aldridge, Bates, Mason, Wagner, McKay, Bennett must be close to getting a Test match run.

    Can they bat better than Martin?
    Aldridge 1541 @ 22.01
    Bates 191 @ 22.22
    MJ Mason 1194 @ 15.92
    N Wagner 517 @ 16.15
    AJ McKay 175 @ 11.66
    HK Bennett 108 @ 5.68

    Odd how the guys closer to the team Wagner, Bennett, Mckay, Arnel are all worse with the bat. Hiini must average 30 odd.
    Last edited by Athlai; 29-03-2010 at 06:38 AM.
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  5. #20
    International Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    I don't think Mason would do much better than Martin, tbh.

    Really frustrated with our lack of pace bowling options at the moment. Why is it so hard to develop a young bowler who can bowl 140km/h+?

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    His batting doesn't matter. While it's aggravating to watch him get out for a duck, when has it ever really contributed to a loss?
    Heh what a ridiculous statement. Remember it's not just however many his replacement would score, there's also the guy at the other end who's not going to get imminently stranded. Even if a direct replacement for Martin can only manage an average of 10 occupying 30 balls, that's going to get you another 20 or so runs on average - per innings. As always with cricket it could be that any given innings it makes no difference, or it could be that there would have been one of those match turning 50+ last wicket partnerships.

    You can't afford to carry someone like that when they're as mediocre a bowler as Martin is. A team like New Zealand above anyone else should realise the importance of lower order batting depth because they'll rarely have the quality to match teams up front.
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  7. #22
    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Ed_ View Post
    I watched the third session in a bar with no sound, but the way Sky kept popping Martin's career stats up on the screen gave me a feeling they thought his days were numbered.
    Exactly the same here, and I came to the same conclusion also.

  8. #23
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    Heh what a ridiculous statement. Remember it's not just however many his replacement would score, there's also the guy at the other end who's not going to get imminently stranded. Even if a direct replacement for Martin can only manage an average of 10 occupying 30 balls, that's going to get you another 20 or so runs on average - per innings. As always with cricket it could be that any given innings it makes no difference, or it could be that there would have been one of those match turning 50+ last wicket partnerships.

    You can't afford to carry someone like that when they're as mediocre a bowler as Martin is. A team like New Zealand above anyone else should realise the importance of lower order batting depth because they'll rarely have the quality to match teams up front.
    I really can't think how a 50 run last-wicket partnership would help us when we're already trailing by 300 in the first innings (which we usually are). I'm all for having some competent batsmen in the lower-order (I remember the days when we used to have Dion Nash come in at 9 and Vettori at 10), but seriously, when was the last time that 20 runs in an innings would've made any noticeable contribution to a match we lost?

  9. #24
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post

    Top Ten Pace Bowling Wicket Takers

    GW Aldridge 42 @ 20.16 SR 37.9
    MD Bates 37 @ 25.40 SR 54.4
    EP Thompson 34 @ 24.08 SR 49
    BJ Arnel 29 @ 19.58 SR 48.6
    MJ Mason 28 @ 22.78 SR 49.1
    N Wagner 26 @ 36.69 SR 64.7
    WC McSkimming 23 @ 28.39 SR 54.2
    BC Hiini 22 @ 26.68 SR 56.8
    SR Wells 20 @ 23.55 SR 41.8
    MJ Tugaga 20 @ 38.35 SR 52.2

    Top Ten Pace Bowling Wicket Takers Last Year

    DR Tuffey 27 @ 20.96
    LJ Shaw 26 @ 23.92
    HK Bennett 26 @ 29.26
    MJ McClenaghan 26 @ 42.26
    AM Ellis 23 @ 23.78
    EP Thompson 23 @ 31.95
    AJ McKay 23 @ 34.34
    de Grandhomme 21 @ 24.19
    N Wagner 21 @ 33.33
    MJ Harvie 19 @ 31

    Out of those guys I'd think that Aldridge, Bates, Mason, Wagner, McKay, Bennett must be close to getting a Test match run.

    Can they bat better than Martin?
    Aldridge 1541 @ 22.01
    Bates 191 @ 22.22
    MJ Mason 1194 @ 15.92
    N Wagner 517 @ 16.15
    AJ McKay 175 @ 11.66
    HK Bennett 108 @ 5.68

    Odd how the guys closer to the team Wagner, Bennett, Mckay, Arnel are all worse with the bat. Hiini must average 30 odd.
    McKay actually has pretty mediocre stats over the past couple of seasons, which is a bit discouraging. Same for Wagner. There's no point in selecting Aldridge, as he'll add nothing and the selectors seem to think that Mason has done his dash. Bennett seems to have picked up the injury bug just as he was starting to string some halfway decent performances together, and none of the rest have been particularly consistent.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    With a first class average of 37 those seats might be a hard sell. Although to be fair to him, he is a player of rare ineptitude with the bat (averaging 0.3 this season). He's a worthy successor to Martin in that sense at least.
    Personally I give more weighting to his most recent performances, rather than his career average.

    2007-08 --- 18 wks @ 36.33 + one 5wk bag
    2008-09 --- 26 wks @ 29.26
    2009-10 --- 18 wks @ 27.00

    Hopefully the improvement hes shown over each season continues.

    Anyway, stats are just a guideline...

  11. #26
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I really can't think how a 50 run last-wicket partnership would help us when we're already trailing by 300 in the first innings (which we usually are). I'm all for having some competent batsmen in the lower-order (I remember the days when we used to have Dion Nash come in at 9 and Vettori at 10), but seriously, when was the last time that 20 runs in an innings would've made any noticeable contribution to a match we lost?
    You're not looking at this the right way. You might end up losing a match by an innings and think "hey, what difference would a 50-run tenth wicket partnership have made?" But in reality those things occasionally do make a difference. What if it was just enough to frustrate your opponents and lead to them losing their openers in the first five overs when otherwise they scored centuries? New Zealand used to be notorious for niggly lower-order stands giving them a way back into games. When you only field ten batsmen, you're missing out on something.

    Anyway, Chris Martin's a fantastically likable cricketer, but I'm afraid I can't see any benefit to keeping him in the side at his age.

  12. #27
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    You're not looking at this the right way. You might end up losing a match by an innings and think "hey, what difference would a 50-run tenth wicket partnership have made?" But in reality those things occasionally do make a difference. What if it was just enough to frustrate your opponents and lead to them losing their openers in the first five overs when otherwise they scored centuries? New Zealand used to be notorious for niggly lower-order stands giving them a way back into games. When you only field ten batsmen, you're missing out on something.

    Anyway, Chris Martin's a fantastically likable cricketer, but I'm afraid I can't see any benefit to keeping him in the side at his age.
    There have been occasions when Martin has succeeded in lasting sustained periods of time/ was kept off the strike long enough for the other batsman to blast 40 odd. Had no effect, because the match positions we either were too far behind the game, or subsequently let ourselves down. And if we're relying on 10th wicket partnerships to change to course of a match it really says a lot about how far we've sunk.

  13. #28
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
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    England have saved a crap load of matches recently with 10th wicket partnerships.

  14. #29
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    England have saved a crap load of matches recently with 10th wicket partnerships.
    And when have we ever been in a position to do the same?

  15. #30
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    And when have we ever been in a position to do the same?
    What if the circumstance popped up?

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