England in West Indies, 1986

[Richard]

85/86 was nowhere near the lowest point for England fans of my g-generation. For me the worst series go something like this:

3. 1988
2. 1992/93
1. 1989

Not the lowest point, maybe, but the most comprehensive thrashing. And that comprehensive thrashing was followed by two more at home the following summer, a defeat in '87, another in '87/88, then two more comprehensive thrashings in '88 and '89 (and another one would've almost certainly featured in '88/89 had the tour not been cancelled).

So that half-decade '86 to '89 has to rank as the lowest point in the history of England's Test team. 3 Tests won out of 42! (All 3 came against the even-more-lowly Australians and Lankans).

...and a special lifetime achievement award goes to the following nightmarish run; '89, '90/91, '93, '94/95, '97, '98/99, '01, '02/03. I was at Trafalgar Square on 13.9.05 and I feel I earned the right.

That has plenty to do with the over-prioritisation of The Ashes though. The even-more-nightmarish sequence thus: '73, '74, '76, '80, '81, '84, '86, '88 was doubtless little less chastising for the "g-generation" (I seriously hope that's not a Limp Bizkit reference BTW) before y'all.

As far as overall wretchedness against all-and-sundry goes, '86-'89 >>>>>>>>>>>> (or, possibly rather, <<<<<<<<<<<<) anything else.

 

[Burgey]

Not the lowest point, maybe, but the most comprehensive thrashing. And that comprehensive thrashing was followed by two more at home the following summer, a defeat in '87, another in '87/88, then two more comprehensive thrashings in '88 and '89 (and another one would've almost certainly featured in '88/89 had the tour not been cancelled).

So that half-decade '86 to '89 has to rank as the lowest point in the history of England's Test team. 3 Tests won out of 42! (All 3 came against the even-more-lowly Australians and Lankans).

That has plenty to do with the over-prioritisation of The Ashes though. The even-more-nightmarish sequence thus: '73, '74, '76, '80, '81, '84, '86, '88 was doubtless little less chastising for the "g-generation" (I seriously hope that's not a Limp Bizkit reference BTW) before y'all.

As far as overall wretchedness against all-and-sundry goes, '86-'89 >>>>>>>>>>>> (or, possibly rather, <<<<<<<<<<<<) anything else.

Think it might be a reference to The Who tbh..

 

[Goughy]

Think it might be a reference to The Who tbh..

surely

 

[Burgey]

 

[Richard]

Think it might be a reference to The Who tbh..

Wondered about that too (not remotely a fan of that song either FTR) but thought accusing someone of quoting Limp Bizkit was rather more of a controversial accusation so I'd go with that.

 

[shivfan]

I was at Sabina Park for the opening day of that series....

I remember Gower and his men coming out and doing light calisthenics before the match started. Then, the Windies came out, and under the watchful eye of Dennis Waight, he carried them thru some trying stretches and exercises. I turned to my neighbour, and said, 'That's why we're so much better than them.' Oh, how things have changed....

The opening partnership for England was a good one. But as soon as the first wicket fell, they collapsed like a pack of cards. Patterson was on debut, and he was devastatingly fast!

Stumps tumbling everywhere, and the England batsmen were scared of him. After the match, I believe it was Botham who said he was the fastest he'd ever seen. With every wicket, Marshall congratulated and encouraged Patterson. It was great support for a debutant from an all-time great....

Then, we had time to watch Greenidge and Haynes batting. Greenidge got injured while batting, and had to have a runner. As is so often the case when the great man is hurt, the runs flowed from the bat to the boundary once he was hobbling!

But my abiding memory of that day is the way Phil Edmonds sledged Greenidge while fielding at short backward leg. After a short while, the Barbadian blew a fuse, and threatened to hit Edmonds with the bat if he didn't shut up. Big Phil didn't back down, and the two men squared up on the pitch. Gower, ever the gentleman, intervened and pulled Edmonds away. At this time, I was one member of a huge crowd in the George Headley stand who was hurling verbal abuse at Edmonds.

Then, Greenidge pulled a ball with great ferocity that cannoned into Edmonds' shins. We in the crowd roared our delight! But Big Phil didn't flinch, and pretended it didn't hurt....

Next ball, Greenidge pulled again, and the ball raced past Edmonds down to the boundary by the George Headley stand, with Edmonds in hot pursuit. We all roared the ball on in its race against Edmonds. Eventually, Edmonds caught up with the ball, and threw it back, while we continued to heckle him.

Edmonds then turned to us, hands akimbo, and looked at us with the look of a disappointed headmaster. We all jumped to our feet, and verbally barracked him. But what did Edmonds do? He just laughed, blew us kisses, and jogged back to his fielding position. He had us laughing in stitches! After that, we could only talk with great compliments about Edmonds the competitor....

No doubt, if Chris Broad had been a match referee then, he would've dished out a fine and a ban to spoil and exacerbate an incident that was easily resolved by Edmonds and Greenidge sharing a beer at the end of the day.

 

[zaremba]

Love it!

 

[Stapel]

I think Ian Botham refered to these series in his book. It's the one where Viv Richards got the fastest 100, not?

 

[Richard]

Yup, at his home ground. You might recognise that ground - 8 years later Brian Lara scored 375 there and 18 years later, he scored 400*.

 

[Richard]

I was at Sabina Park for the opening day of that series....

I remember Gower and his men coming out and doing light calisthenics before the match started. Then, the Windies came out, and under the watchful eye of Dennis Waight, he carried them thru some trying stretches and exercises. I turned to my neighbour, and said, 'That's why we're so much better than them.' Oh, how things have changed....

The opening partnership for England was a good one. But as soon as the first wicket fell, they collapsed like a pack of cards. Patterson was on debut, and he was devastatingly fast!

Stumps tumbling everywhere, and the England batsmen were scared of him. After the match, I believe it was Botham who said he was the fastest he'd ever seen. With every wicket, Marshall congratulated and encouraged Patterson. It was great support for a debutant from an all-time great....

Then, we had time to watch Greenidge and Haynes batting. Greenidge got injured while batting, and had to have a runner. As is so often the case when the great man is hurt, the runs flowed from the bat to the boundary once he was hobbling!

But my abiding memory of that day is the way Phil Edmonds sledged Greenidge while fielding at short backward leg. After a short while, the Barbadian blew a fuse, and threatened to hit Edmonds with the bat if he didn't shut up. Big Phil didn't back down, and the two men squared up on the pitch. Gower, ever the gentleman, intervened and pulled Edmonds away. At this time, I was one member of a huge crowd in the George Headley stand who was hurling verbal abuse at Edmonds.

Then, Greenidge pulled a ball with great ferocity that cannoned into Edmonds' shins. We in the crowd roared our delight! But Big Phil didn't flinch, and pretended it didn't hurt....

Next ball, Greenidge pulled again, and the ball raced past Edmonds down to the boundary by the George Headley stand, with Edmonds in hot pursuit. We all roared the ball on in its race against Edmonds. Eventually, Edmonds caught up with the ball, and threw it back, while we continued to heckle him.

Edmonds then turned to us, hands akimbo, and looked at us with the look of a disappointed headmaster. We all jumped to our feet, and verbally barracked him. But what did Edmonds do? He just laughed, blew us kisses, and jogged back to his fielding position. He had us laughing in stitches! After that, we could only talk with great compliments about Edmonds the competitor....

No doubt, if Chris Broad had been a match referee then, he would've dished out a fine and a ban to spoil and exacerbate an incident that was easily resolved by Edmonds and Greenidge sharing a beer at the end of the day.

Some really interesting stuff there - Patterson's debut game and series is the stuff of legend but had never heard of that Edmunds-Greenidge-Headley-stand-crowd exchange before now. Thanks a lot.

 

[wpdavid]

I remember my sister liking an expression she heard on the radio and announcing that if she formed a pop group it would be called "Graham Dilley and his Suspect Knees".

Anyway you're right Richard the first overseas tour to be televised live in England was 90/91. I remember being at boarding school watching the highlights on a mini tv under the duvet. It also marked the debut for Charles "that dickhead" Colvile, who has at least improved a lot since then.

I don't remember seeing highlights of 85/86 but we would see the devastation each evening at the end of the news.

85/86 was nowhere near the lowest point for England fans of my g-generation. For me the worst series go something like this:

3. 1988
2. 1992/93
1. 1989

Yeah, totally agree with 1 & 2. 1988 was also well up there because even after two blackwashes, the 4-0 reverse that year was avoidable if the selectors hadn't been such complete prats over the Gatting non-affair. Even so, the series at home to India in 1986 was probably worse. A 2-0 loss to a pretty moderate India side at home in the first half of the season was grim in the extreme. The away loss to NZ in 1983 was also unpalatable - not so much because we had no right to lose to them (obviously they were a pretty good side by then) but because of the depths we plumbed losing the decisive test as badly as we did.