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Will West indies and Pakistan ever recover?

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Have you never heard of Phil Hughes and his twin centuries in his second Test?

I don't really get why you always compare the fringe West Indies players with Australia, you should be comparing it with sides like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.
Erm no it's YOU and others who have come in and started comparing our youngsters to others, i happen to think we've got the best bunch around, THAT'S MY OPINION, goodness me i never knew so many people would start crying over it :laugh: .
 

NasserFan207

International Vice-Captain
I don't really rate Hughes.

That said, its difficult to make judgements about players at u19 level. Personally I was more impressed by Holder than Hazlewood, but things can change quickly at that age.

I'd say the Australian and West Indies teams were equally talented (although the Australians had better bowling depth), but the Australian dudes will likely do better in the long run simply because Australia is amazing at getting the most out of players, while West indies tends to waste talent. We'll see.
 

TT Boy

Hall of Fame Member
Regarding the original topic, I can see some time in the wilderness for both teams.

The Windies have limited resources and most of those would rather emulate Michael Jordan than Viv Richards.
I don't see another Brian Lara on the horizon.

There is a wealth of talent in Pakistan, but they spend most of their time arguing. Until they can find somebody to pull it all together the chaos will continue.
That’s simply a fallacy. Spain and even the Netherlands have produced more NBA players than cricketing nations in the Caribbean. Even Georgia has produced more NBA players than Jamaica. They might not be playing cricket anymore but they are not playing basketball to any great level.
 

Craig

World Traveller
The 17 he made after he got the 100 he only got out because Gayle hit the ball onto his stump and the umpire thought it hit Haritz's hand even though it clearly didn't!! 8-) , you can talk about the Aussie youngsters but none of them have got a 100 against a side as strong of Australia, until they do Barath must have the edge, and if you're not a Aussie fan you certainly know a lot about them, clearly more than you do about the WI kids.
Newsflash: I live in Australia and not the Caribbean.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Windie, nobody is objecting that you have a different opinion, they just think you are wrong.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Which he is. Don't see how he doesn't get that scoring centuries and taking wickets at FC level is more important than just potential and chucking in players before they're ready. Thankfully he's not a selector. No offense meant of course but you don't have much clue what you're on about.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Which he is. Don't see how he doesn't get that scoring centuries and taking wickets at FC level is more important than just potential and chucking in players before they're ready. Thankfully he's not a selector. No offense meant of course but you don't have much clue what you're on about.
"No offence"? you could have fooled me 8-) , firstly you've shook your pom-poms for the old guard from day one so i'm not surprised you haven't been able to comprehend my views, most of the people i've backed have done well in first class FC cricket this year, Gullien, Kantasingh, Jahmar Hamilton to name a few, while others already have international experience like Kiaran Powell and Darren Bravo, i'm thankful you aren't a selector either because we'd be stuck with the status quo.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
"No offence"? you could have fooled me 8-) , firstly you've shook your pom-poms for the old guard from day one so i'm not surprised you haven't been able to comprehend my views, most of the people i've backed have done well in first class FC cricket this year, Gullien, Kantasingh, Jahmar Hamilton to name a few, while others already have international experience like Kiaran Powell and Darren Bravo, i'm thankful you aren't a selector either because we'd be stuck with the status quo.
I've backed Pollard and Barath being played and still do so it's not a case of me sticking with the old guard. Performance counts. Roach, Bernard and Sammy did well with their opportunites when the regular team was unavailable so I was all for them getting runs. Barath has done well for more than 1 season at domestic level so I was for him getting a run. Fletcher, Hamilton, Braithwaite, Dowrich and Holder have no right to be anywhere near WI senior teams. Powell as well. Bravo gets another good season under his belt and I'll be for him getting a run as well. Deonarine dominated regionally so his chances are well deserved.

Nobody should get a free run just because they're young and have potential. Mediocre performances at the FC level are not impressive even if they're young. It just means despite having talent they're not ready for international level. If they're ready for international games then they should be dominating at FC. Kantasingh and Khan have shown solid performances over more than one season so them being picked I have no problems with. Miller has dominated and so his chances are well deserved.

I have nothing against young players but 30s and 50s and 1 or 2 wickets are not impressive. Centuries and 4 or 5 wicket hauls over consecutive seasons deserve to be rewarded a place and that has nothing to do with age.

Gayle, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, Nash, Bravo and Taylor have performed at domestic and international level and so are more than deserving of their places even if they go through bad patches. Only if that patch continues for years would it make sense to drop them if no one at regional level is banging down the door. Hinds and Smith did that but were found wanting at international level yes, but their chances were deserved. Sarwan did well at regionals and he has also done so internationally. So too Gayle and Chanders. Barath dominated and is getting a well deserved run.

It's as simple as that. Mediocrity at any age is to be ignored. Nothing mediocre deserves praise and is why I'm not sad Marshall got dropped. Just like some of the ones you're touting he also looked good young and got pushed in too early before actually doing well for more than just 1 year.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
Chill bro, I wasn't having a go at you.

I'm sorry if I have ever lead you to believe otherwise, but in reality I'm just a 6ft 2 piece of white trash.
So that's the country you live in, your height and race given out within a few post? blimey i never expected to read a biography today!! :laugh: ..

Jokin aside it's no big deal, i was just being defensive as usual.
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
I've backed Pollard and Barath being played and still do so it's not a case of me sticking with the old guard. Performance counts. Roach, Bernard and Sammy did well with their opportunites when the regular team was unavailable so I was all for them getting runs. Barath has done well for more than 1 season at domestic level so I was for him getting a run. Fletcher, Hamilton, Braithwaite, Dowrich and Holder have no right to be anywhere near WI senior teams. Powell as well. Bravo gets another good season under his belt and I'll be for him getting a run as well. Deonarine dominated regionally so his chances are well deserved.

Nobody should get a free run just because they're young and have potential. Mediocre performances at the FC level are not impressive even if they're young. It just means despite having talent they're not ready for international level. If they're ready for international games then they should be dominating at FC. Kantasingh and Khan have shown solid performances over more than one season so them being picked I have no problems with. Miller has dominated and so his chances are well deserved.

I have nothing against young players but 30s and 50s and 1 or 2 wickets are not impressive. Centuries and 4 or 5 wicket hauls over consecutive seasons deserve to be rewarded a place and that has nothing to do with age.

Gayle, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, Nash, Bravo and Taylor have performed at domestic and international level and so are more than deserving of their places even if they go through bad patches. Only if that patch continues for years would it make sense to drop them if no one at regional level is banging down the door. Hinds and Smith did that but were found wanting at international level yes, but their chances were deserved. Sarwan did well at regionals and he has also done so internationally. So too Gayle and Chanders. Barath dominated and is getting a well deserved run.

It's as simple as that. Mediocrity at any age is to be ignored. Nothing mediocre deserves praise and is why I'm not sad Marshall got dropped. Just like some of the ones you're touting he also looked good young and got pushed in too early before actually doing well for more than just 1 year.
Sorry i simply don't agree with your notion that certain players should be "undroppable", that policy won't get us anywhere, if a player isn't performing there's only so many chances you can give him, look at Ramdin today? he gets dropped and finally we win a game, i believe setting that example to the players today is what won us the game,

Now onto your other points, how on earth can you be serious about Fletcher? i mean yes he's been crap in the WI shirt but this season he was absolutely electric for Winwards and would have got the most runs this season if he wasn't called up for these matches, Brathwaite is a special case and every Windie fan knows it, first he won Barabados the game against Jamaica in his last FC match and then he went and got 80 against the same Zimbabwe bowlers we've faced today, so of course people are gonna talk about him, Jahmar Hamilton had a breakthrough season for Leewards this year and imo he has huge potential, the way our wicketkeepers are going right now wouldn't it make sense to give a few other keepers a try? i don't think we have anything to lose,

Like others you're using the Marshall story as an excuse but since then Barath and Roach have come through to perform very well, Marshall's problems wasn't just on the pitch from what i remember, he also had issues off the field.
 

roseboy64

Cricket Web Content Updater
Sorry i simply don't agree with your notion that certain players should be "undroppable", that policy won't get us anywhere, if a player isn't performing there's only so many chances you can give him, look at Ramdin today? he gets dropped and finally we win a game, i believe setting that example to the players today is what won us the game,

Now onto your other points, how on earth can you be serious about Fletcher? i mean yes he's been crap in the WI shirt but this season he was absolutely electric for Winwards and would have got the most runs this season if he wasn't called up for these matches, Brathwaite is a special case and every Windie fan knows it, first he won Barabados the game against Jamaica in his last FC match and then he went and got 80 against the same Zimbabwe bowlers we've faced today, so of course people are gonna talk about him, Jahmar Hamilton had a breakthrough season for Leewards this year and imo he has huge potential, the way our wicketkeepers are going right now wouldn't it make sense to give a few other keepers a try? i don't think we have anything to lose,

Like others you're using the Marshall story as an excuse but since then Barath and Roach have come through to perform very well, Marshall's problems wasn't just on the pitch from what i remember, he also had issues off the field.
I never said anything about undroppable. But when you have a track record you get a long rope to sort out yourself. Ponting and Hussey for the Aussies were stuck in bad form for months but they were stuck with and they've come good. If the bad run continues for ages then of course you drop them.
 

Craig

World Traveller
I've backed Pollard and Barath being played and still do so it's not a case of me sticking with the old guard. Performance counts. Roach, Bernard and Sammy did well with their opportunites when the regular team was unavailable so I was all for them getting runs. Barath has done well for more than 1 season at domestic level so I was for him getting a run. Fletcher, Hamilton, Braithwaite, Dowrich and Holder have no right to be anywhere near WI senior teams. Powell as well. Bravo gets another good season under his belt and I'll be for him getting a run as well. Deonarine dominated regionally so his chances are well deserved.

Nobody should get a free run just because they're young and have potential. Mediocre performances at the FC level are not impressive even if they're young. It just means despite having talent they're not ready for international level. If they're ready for international games then they should be dominating at FC. Kantasingh and Khan have shown solid performances over more than one season so them being picked I have no problems with. Miller has dominated and so his chances are well deserved.

I have nothing against young players but 30s and 50s and 1 or 2 wickets are not impressive. Centuries and 4 or 5 wicket hauls over consecutive seasons deserve to be rewarded a place and that has nothing to do with age.

Gayle, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, Nash, Bravo and Taylor have performed at domestic and international level and so are more than deserving of their places even if they go through bad patches. Only if that patch continues for years would it make sense to drop them if no one at regional level is banging down the door. Hinds and Smith did that but were found wanting at international level yes, but their chances were deserved. Sarwan did well at regionals and he has also done so internationally. So too Gayle and Chanders. Barath dominated and is getting a well deserved run.

It's as simple as that. Mediocrity at any age is to be ignored. Nothing mediocre deserves praise and is why I'm not sad Marshall got dropped. Just like some of the ones you're touting he also looked good young and got pushed in too early before actually doing well for more than just 1 year.
That is pretty much how it is in Australia

So that's the country you live in, your height and race given out within a few post? blimey i never expected to read a biography today!! :laugh: ..

Jokin aside it's no big deal, i was just being defensive as usual.
People know a lot more about me then that. Some have even met me in person :ph34r:
 

WindieWeathers

International Regular
I never said anything about undroppable. But when you have a track record you get a long rope to sort out yourself. Ponting and Hussey for the Aussies were stuck in bad form for months but they were stuck with and they've come good. If the bad run continues for ages then of course you drop them.
You implied that the seniors should be given "years" to get their form right, that sounds like they would be "undroppable" to me, the cases of Ponting and Hussey are different to ours because even if they are off form more often than not Australia still get results, us on the other hand don't.
 

GotSpin

Hall of Fame Member
That is pretty much how it is in Australia
Indeed.

Talent just isn't good enough. Before playing tests all these WI young guns need to carve up FC for at least two seasons before even gaining consideration
 

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