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Thread: Possible way of dealing with dead matches.

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I reckon virtually all ODI series should be three matches, personally.
    Three ODIs just isn't enough, you may as well not even bother making the trip for that IMO. And if one gets rained off \ reduced, worse still.
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  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Yeah nice opinion, but not including no results or ties, in your 5 game series 40% of the games could be dead rubbers, but in my 4 game series only 25% of the games could be dead rubbers.

    So that would suggest that 4 games, not 5 is a better option if you would like to cut dead rubbers.
    I'm actually not remotely bothered about "dead rubber" ODI games because, a bit like Cribb, I don't actually consider the result of a bilateral ODI series very important, really. It's never meant much to me. All ODIs, to me, are preparation for World Cups, and the only ODIs where I'm actually especially concerned with the results are World Cup games.

  3. #18
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Three ODIs just isn't enough, you may as well not even bother making the trip for that IMO. And if one gets rained off \ reduced, worse still.
    Well I'm not in favour of specialist ODI trips anyway. Should just be played before/after a Test series IMO. The Tests are what you make the trip for.
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  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Hmm, see for me ODIs are an event in themselves - for the POV of cutting down on needless travel I have always been in favour of ODIs and Tests being played in the same trip, and almost always favour ODIs before Tests.

    But I've grown-up with England playing three ODIs per home summer, which was obvious as simply inadequate from way before the time they finally decided to up the number. So I've kinda always been ranged against the three-ODI series.


  5. #20
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I'm actually not remotely bothered about "dead rubber" ODI games because, a bit like Cribb, I don't actually consider the result of a bilateral ODI series very important, really. It's never meant much to me. All ODIs, to me, are preparation for World Cups, and the only ODIs where I'm actually especially concerned with the results are World Cup games.
    Oh okay, I think the thread starter was talking about ways to prevent dead rubbers.

    That's bizarre to think all ODIs are in preparation for the World Cup. What about Champions Trophy matches and what about ODI matches immediately after a World Cup?

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Oh okay, I think the thread starter was talking about ways to prevent dead rubbers.
    Yes - my point, essentially, is that I don't really care about it. To me, there's no need to prevent dead-rubber ODIs, because they're no less worthy than those where a series is at stake - because I don't really care about the series result that much.
    That's bizarre to think all ODIs are in preparation for the World Cup.
    Not really - it just doesn't tend to be the way Australians view it. Cricket watchers from many other countries, and England especially, view them precisely that way.
    What about Champions Trophy matches
    My ideal situation - as I wrote about ~18 months ago - is that the Champions Trophy becomes a competition worth wanting to win, a prize not a million miles short of the World Cup. As things currently stand, it's little more than a waste of everyone's time which would be better not being played at all.

    But hopefully someday there'll come a time when my previous post could have "World Cup or Champions Trophy" substituted for "World Cup".
    and what about ODI matches immediately after a World Cup?
    Preparation for the next Cup. I've always said that immediately a World Cup finishes, I'm happiest seeing players who won't be playing the next one retire even if they could keep going for another 2 years or so.

  7. #22
    Hall of Fame Member NUFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Yes - my point, essentially, is that I don't really care about it. To me, there's no need to prevent dead-rubber ODIs, because they're no less worthy than those where a series is at stake - because I don't really care about the series result that much.

    Not really - it just doesn't tend to be the way Australians view it. Cricket watchers from many other countries, and England especially, view them precisely that way.

    My ideal situation - as I wrote about ~18 months ago - is that the Champions Trophy becomes a competition worth wanting to win, a prize not a million miles short of the World Cup. As things currently stand, it's little more than a waste of everyone's time which would be better not being played at all.

    But hopefully someday there'll come a time when my previous post could have "World Cup or Champions Trophy" substituted for "World Cup".

    Preparation for the next Cup. I've always said that immediately a World Cup finishes, I'm happiest seeing players who won't be playing the next one retire even if they could keep going for another 2 years or so.
    Wow. I can't believe that you consider 98% or so ODIs as glorified selections trials/preparation for the World Cup.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I'm actually not remotely bothered about "dead rubber" ODI games because, a bit like Cribb, I don't actually consider the result of a bilateral ODI series very important, really. It's never meant much to me. All ODIs, to me, are preparation for World Cups, and the only ODIs where I'm actually especially concerned with the results are World Cup games.
    Because you dont find dead rubbers boring thats it?

    Simply put Australian cricket cannot suffer many more summers like it did this year. Cricket is the national sport, and one of the 3 main sports (other 2 being Aussie Rules and Rugby League) by de facto. We're not India. Cricket is where it is because its played throughout the whole country and has an international aspect to it. But that doesn't mean its place is guaranteed forever.

    People aren't terribly worried about this years terrible ratings/crowd attendance because the upcoming Ashes tour. There will be over 80,000, and if the series is half decent, 90,000 for boxing day. Same with the Twenty20 and good crowds for the ODI's largely due to tickets sales starting in July.

    But if England perform like they did last tour, besides the last two matches of the tri-angular series where Collingwood and Flintoff fired up, they were no different to Pakistan or West Indies this year. Difference was that Australia wanted revenge for 2005 and people viewed this as the last hurrah of one of the best test sides ever. If Australia win 5-0 next season then not even the legacy of the Ashes will guard against a backlash. While most believe this current team is good, no one believes it is great like the 2006/07 team.

    Also, if you look at Australian cricket we love to have trophies and titles for tournaments against other countries. Of course the Ashes isn't technically a trophy it is an important symbol. Besides the Ashes theres the Frank Worrell Trophy, Border-Gavaskar trophy, Trans-Tasman Trophy, Warne-Muralidaran Trophy, Chappell-Hadlee Trophy, the defunct triangular World Series Cup etc. We want meaning, even if its a cheap trophy whacked together like the Frank Worrell trophy.

    At the moment theres probably more interest in the ODI series in NZ right now than there was for the Pakistan and W.I. series because it looks competitive.

    Of course there is cultural attitudes too. Australians would not just accept the oligarchies that exist in European football. I dont need to look at the tables to know that Man Utd and Chelsea are at the top of the EPL, Real Madrid or Barcelona in the La Liga, Inter or A.C. Milan in the Serie A or Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga or the farce that is Scottish football - two teams competing to see who can beat the minnows better.

    Australia has a very competitive and volatile sporting market. Look at the explosion of basketball in the late 80's, early 90's and its spectacular decline. For example rugby is suffering at the moment for many reasons. One of those is the increase of interest of soccer. For years rugby fans taunted Aussie Rules and League fans that it was an international sport and they weren't. Bit hard to do that to football.

    Australians find lop sided, unequal contests an anathema and will simply switch off.

  9. #24
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    As I said, the way an Australian summer is scheduled needs altering as well.

    What was the point in scrapping the CB series to replace it with 10 ODIs in a row?

  10. #25
    State Vice-Captain slugger's Avatar
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    I wonder if it would be worth considering a tri nations type cup like the rugby. NZ/Aust/SA
    each country host one country for 3 mach series. the leading team on table host the final which is a 3 match final. the followering year the away games switch over.

    year one;
    In NZ
    NZ vs Aust.
    In Aust.
    Aust vs SA
    In SA
    SA vs NZ

    year two
    In NZ
    NZ vs SA
    In Aust
    Aust vs NZ
    In SA
    SA vs Aust

    back to year one and repeat.

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NUFAN View Post
    Wow. I can't believe that you consider 98% or so ODIs as glorified selections trials/preparation for the World Cup.
    It isn't just me. That attitude is very prevalent throughout cricket followers where I come from, and is not that unusual anywhere outside Australia in my experience.

    Only in Australia is the next ODI series the most important thing - in most countries, that only applies to Test series'.

  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slippyslip View Post
    Because you dont find dead rubbers boring thats it?
    I can't say I care greatly whether a series is at stake in a ODI - I enjoy (or, as the case may be, don't enjoy) them equally, by-and-large. In a Test match, I find a dead-rubber match less interesting than a live game where the series\trophy is still at stake, but even there, the difference isn't enormous. A Test is a Test for me. It's only player performances I tend to rate a little bit lower in dead vs live matches - the entertainment factor on a personal level is not tremendously different.
    Simply put Australian cricket cannot suffer many more summers like it did this year... Australians find lop sided, unequal contests an anathema and will simply switch off.
    And that, I think, is all that matters. What has made last Australian summer so boring has been not dead games, but lack of competition throughout. There is nothing Australians can do to control that - well, short, obviously, of deliberately picking weakened teams in order to make games more watchable, which would rather make a mockery of what Test cricket is supposed to be about.

  13. #28
    International Coach social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It isn't just me. That attitude is very prevalent throughout cricket followers where I come from, and is not that unusual anywhere outside Australia in my experience.

    Only in Australia is the next ODI series the most important thing - in most countries, that only applies to Test series'.
    Since when?

    If anything, Australia cares less about the result of random odi series than anybody else and uses virtually every series as preparation for WCs e.g. Bevan being dropped almost straight after the 2003 WC as it wasnt considered that he'd be in line for 2007 selection

  14. #29
    State Vice-Captain slugger's Avatar
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    he should have moved to NZ straight away after 3 years with us we would have used him in the 2007 wc.

  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Since when?

    If anything, Australia cares less about the result of random odi series than anybody else and uses virtually every series as preparation for WCs e.g. Bevan being dropped almost straight after the 2003 WC as it wasnt considered that he'd be in line for 2007 selection
    Australians in my experience almost certainly have less taste for "prepare for the next World Cup" than those of any other country.

    Hayden and Gilchrist were both maintained, at their own will, for a while after the 2007 WC - in most if not all other countries they'd have retired after the Cup.

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