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Thread: No English batsmen to cross 5000 ODI runs?

  1. #31
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Didn't count the games against Bangladesh, they're not important - have just checked and it was actually 9, 7 against Australia and the first 2 against Pakistan. Thought someone missed 1 of the 7 against Australia in 2005, but they all played the lot.
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  2. #32
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Still ODIs though, so I was right with 12 (or would that make it 11)
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    gimh has now surpassed richard as the greatest cw member ever imo

    RIP Craigos. A true CW legend. You will be missed.

  3. #33
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    England selectors and those of their generation who make-up commentary and media teams, more than those anywhere else (and it certainly is a global problem), struggle badly when it comes to distinguishing between the two forms of the game. Too much emphasis is placed on Tests when ODIs are under consideration - thus the ludicrous assertion by someone, can't remember who, in the 2002/03 World Cup that Vaughan was a better batsman than Knight midway through a ODI (the two were batting together at the time).

    If England selectors were better at distinguishing between the game-forms, England would have a better team and their relatively few good ODI players would have more fulfilled careers. If you think the list of batsmen who've been treated unfairly is long, don't even start looking at the bowlers.
    Certainly is ludicrous that someone like Michael Vaughan managed to play 80+ ODIs with an average under 30 and no hundreds to his name, while also being pretty average in the field. Surely there must've been better one day bats going around.
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  4. #34
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Still ODIs though, so I was right with 12 (or would that make it 11)
    Well, so was I really, when I say "ODIs" I mean "serious ODIs". You can be right as well if you prefer. :stuck-up smiley:


  5. #35
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    Certainly is ludicrous that someone like Michael Vaughan managed to play 80+ ODIs with an average under 30 and no hundreds to his name, while also being pretty average in the field. Surely there must've been better one day bats going around.
    There were (though not that many who I'd have confidence in having had a particularly good chance of being ODI-class - which to some extent was the problem). But even on CW there was still no shortage of support among England fans for his retention, and posts stating they were sure he'd come good. And if there was some amount of support on CW, you can only imagine what it was like in the wider context.

  6. #36
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    There were (though not that many who I'd have confidence in having had a particularly good chance of being ODI-class - which to some extent was the problem). But even on CW there was still no shortage of support among England fans for his retention, and posts stating they were sure he'd come good. And if there was some amount of support on CW, you can only imagine what it was like in the wider context.
    Haha. Mohammad Sami always looked like he was about to come good too...

  7. #37
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    It's actually a bit of a pity we can't do any really meaningful comparison there, because by 2006/07 even the most ardent Vaughan-has-always-had-it-in-him-in-ODIs-I-know-it types on CW had basically given-up. Likewise I've never heard a Pakistan fan on CW advocate the selection of Mohammad Sami for Tests or ODIs, but there basically weren't any in the days when he was still being picked regularly - 2003/04-2004/05 sort of time. The Pakistan-fan population has only begun to grow since it's become fairly unequivocal how awful Sami actually is.

    It'd have been interesting to see what Pakistan-fan consensus would've been had Pakistan fans abounded on CW during the guts of Sami's career.

  8. #38
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    It's actually a bit of a pity we can't do any really meaningful comparison there, because by 2006/07 even the most ardent Vaughan-has-always-had-it-in-him-in-ODIs-I-know-it types on CW had basically given-up. Likewise I've never heard a Pakistan fan on CW advocate the selection of Mohammad Sami for Tests or ODIs, but there basically weren't any in the days when he was still being picked regularly - 2003/04-2004/05 sort of time. The Pakistan-fan population has only begun to grow since it's become fairly unequivocal how awful Sami actually is.

    It'd have been interesting to see what Pakistan-fan consensus would've been had Pakistan fans abounded on CW during the guts of Sami's career.
    They were still going on about the possibility on Sky when the West Indies toured in 2007 - Vaughan by this point had resigned the captaincy, but UIMM had never officially retired from the format the way Harmison had in Australia - and his last Test innings of that series saw him spank around disinterested West Indies bowlers who were bowling pies for a better than a run a ball 40 odd.

    I'm sure either Hussain or Botham opined during that innings that Vaughan showed he could play aggressively and should still be in the ODI side.

  9. #39
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Wouldn't be surprised. No, Vaughan never retired from ODIs (well, not until 2009 I suppose), he did an Alec Stewart and said "I'm still available if you want me, but I won't be around for the next World Cup and thus I understand if you don't want to pick me". Only Stewart went a bit further and said "I don't think you should pick me because I think you should be looking to the next Cup, but if you want to do otherwise I'll play".

    "Vaughan has shown in a Test match that he can play aggressively so he should be able to succeed in ODIs" was a common theme all career. As I said, it just shows misunderstanding of how different Tests and ODIs are.
    Last edited by Richard; 02-03-2010 at 10:25 AM.

  10. #40
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Matt Prior is another good example of the same - can hit it about in Tests but that doesn't automatically make him a great ODI player.

  11. #41
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Prior is a bit different from Vaughan in that he actually can play unconventionally when he tries to, even though conventional suits him best. Prior at least there's some excuse for someone who thought he could be a good OD batsman - but there's simply ample evidence to show that he isn't, and at the age of 26 it's exceptionally unlikely he ever will be.

    Vaughan the reasons for his OD inadequacies were plain for all to see if they just looked at him batting (in either a FC or OD game) instead of looking at a piece of paper which gave his strike-rate in a Test match.

  12. #42
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised. No, Vaughan never retired from ODIs (well, not until 2009 I suppose), he did an Alec Stewart and said "I'm still available if you want me, but I won't be around for the next World Cup and thus I understand if you don't want to pick me". Only Stewart went a bit further and said "I don't think you should pick me because I think you should be looking to the next Cup, but if you want to do otherwise I'll play".

    "Vaughan has shown in a Test match that he can play aggressively so he should be able to succeed in ODIs" was a common theme all career. As I said, it just shows misunderstanding of how different Tests and ODIs are.
    Thing was in that innings, he scored 48* off 51 balls (just checked on cricinfo), but he wasn't batting aggressively, the West Indies were bowling absolute rubbish. Even a stonewaller like a Boycott would score quickly if you fed him hittable rubbish.

  13. #43
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    in these day no English player is playing good England team need good players

  14. #44
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikha View Post
    in these day no English player is playing good England team need good players
    In ODIs, Collingwood is probably one of the best players around (he revitalized his style of play last year). In Stuart, Anderson england also has two very good odi bowlers. They do have good players, apart form 6-1 drubbing against aussies they played reasonably well in last year.

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