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Thread: So is India safe to tour or is it just a media beat-up?

  1. #1
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    So is India safe to tour or is it just a media beat-up?

    Just looking at a couple of articles here:

    Travel Advice for India - Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

    Players warned: India is your risk - Cricket - Fox Sports

    England players urged to miss IPL - report | Cricket News | Indian Premier League 2010 | Cricinfo.com

    I would certainly take the Australian Government's travel warning with some credibility, but if I were an international cricketer I would tour, you can't let a group like Shiv Sena tell you want you should do or not do in life. So is it as bad as the media states it is, or it just a beat up?

    BTW if any has any intentions to come in and troll, stay out of this thread. Serious discussion only.
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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Well, Shiv Sena threat is toothless, I think most of the advisories are based on threats from Al Quaida.
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    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    For those who are unaware of Bal Thackeray, head of Shiv Sena, this is some of his views:

    "I am a great admirer of Hitler, and I am not ashamed to say so! I do not say that I agree with all the methods he employed, but he was a wonderful organizer and orator, and I feel that he and I have several things in common.... What India really needs is a dictator who will rule benevolently, but with an iron hand."

    "Hitler did very cruel and ugly things. But he was an artist, I love him (for that). He had the power to carry the whole nation, the mob with him. You have to think what magic he had. He was a miracle.... The killing of Jews was wrong. But the good part about Hitler was that he was an artist. He was a daredevil. He had good qualities and bad. I may also have good qualities and bad ones."

    He is on record as having told the Navakal: "Yes, I am a dictator. It is a Hitler that is needed in India today." He was once asked in a television programme whether he wanted to be the Hitler of Mumbai. "Do not underestimate me," he is reported to have retorted. "I am (the Hitler) of the whole of Maharashtra and want to be of whole of India." The Hitler question was put to him in September 1996 by Outlook magazine as well during an interview. "Once you’d expressed admiration for certain facets of Hitler." "Comparison was inevitable," the interviewer prompted. Thackaray said: "I have not sent anybody to the gas chamber. If I’d been like that, you wouldn't have dared to come and interview me."

    Just to give people an idea how much of a nut case he is. They were taken from his wiki page.

  4. #4
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Oh, off topic, reading the travel advisory for the United States:

    "Mandatory evacuation orders are issued on occasion and apply to everyone, including Australians."

    Love how they have to explicitely spell out that in case of a volcano eruption, you may be required to evacuate...


  5. #5
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    For those who are unaware of Bal Thackeray, head of Shiv Sena, this is some of his views:

    "I am a great admirer of Hitler, and I am not ashamed to say so! I do not say that I agree with all the methods he employed, but he was a wonderful organizer and orator, and I feel that he and I have several things in common.... What India really needs is a dictator who will rule benevolently, but with an iron hand."

    "Hitler did very cruel and ugly things. But he was an artist, I love him (for that). He had the power to carry the whole nation, the mob with him. You have to think what magic he had. He was a miracle.... The killing of Jews was wrong. But the good part about Hitler was that he was an artist. He was a daredevil. He had good qualities and bad. I may also have good qualities and bad ones."

    He is on record as having told the Navakal: "Yes, I am a dictator. It is a Hitler that is needed in India today." He was once asked in a television programme whether he wanted to be the Hitler of Mumbai. "Do not underestimate me," he is reported to have retorted. "I am (the Hitler) of the whole of Maharashtra and want to be of whole of India." The Hitler question was put to him in September 1996 by Outlook magazine as well during an interview. "Once you’d expressed admiration for certain facets of Hitler." "Comparison was inevitable," the interviewer prompted. Thackaray said: "I have not sent anybody to the gas chamber. If I’d been like that, you wouldn't have dared to come and interview me."

    Just to give people an idea how much of a nut case he is. They were taken from his wiki page.
    Yea, he's a nutcase, but this threats are for political grandstanding purposes. And I think he's withdrawn them in any case.

    The real threat would be from terrorism.

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    State Regular AaronK's Avatar
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    The South African team is in India right now.. Knock in the Wood.. they haven't faced any security problems so far.. so it has to be baseless...

    I have to admit that i am not a fan of IPL and i really hope that this IPL crap doesn't take place anymore.. but not for security reason rather based on the reality that how much it is hurting the great game of cricket..

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
    The South African team is in India right now.. Knock in the Wood.. they haven't faced any security problems so far.. so it has to be baseless...

    I have to admit that i am not a fan of IPL and i really hope that this IPL crap doesn't take place anymore.. but not for security reason rather based on the reality that how much it is hurting the great game of cricket..
    Very much this.

    **** Sena is just an old dog with plenty of bark but no bite. The moment they decide to 'carry out' their threats, they'd be dead as an organisation, because despite all the chaos that India is, cricket is something they value and unifies them.

    Real threat is from terrorism, but that's been the case for years now. India is not safe, but cricketers in India are, because of the immense security.

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    International Coach Shri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    Very much this.

    **** Sena is just an old dog with plenty of bark but no bite. The moment they decide to 'carry out' their threats, they'd be dead as an organisation, because despite all the chaos that India is, cricket is something they value and unifies them.

    Real threat is from terrorism, but that's been the case for years now. India is not safe, but cricketers in India are, because of the immense security.
    Same thing that was said by people in Pakistan. This line of thought leads to danger. Should always prepare for the worst case scenarios.
    Last edited by Shri; 21-02-2010 at 08:54 PM.

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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Its each individuals choice. Personally I would go with Govt travel warnings.

    This is the US list. Current Travel Warnings

    India isnt on there. Therefore I would go.
    Last edited by Goughy; 21-02-2010 at 08:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metallics2006 View Post
    Same thing that was said by people in Pakistan. This line of thought leads to danger. Should always prepare for the worst case scenarios.
    This. Shiv Sena has resorted to actual violence in the past - and while that's been against defenceless Muslims in the main (they've also allegedly murdered a few mid and low level party men who defected to other parties, and roughed up a number of ordinary people across the board) - and not any sort of targets that could shoot back (anyone with VIP security like IPL cricketers) - complacency isn't the best policy and some amount of over-reaction is called for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metallics2006 View Post
    Same thing that was said by people in Pakistan. This line of thought leads to danger. Should always prepare for the worst case scenarios.
    Yeah but there is heck of a difference in the security situations in both countries.

    Besides money just talks sometimes.

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    Al Qaeda's ability to strike in India is unknown. But they partner with Lashkar-e-Taiba that was behind Mumbai 11/26, likely that cricketers stay in the hotels that were attacked. There has not been a massive crackdown on that organization or especially its parent (JuD) - their leadership is in Pakistan.

    They've attacked targets that shoot back, so there is a real danger. Cricketers never being attacked myth was busted in Lahore 09. While there are differences between India and Pakistan, it's the same type of terrorists that operate in both countries and Pakistan does not seem to have massively cracked down on the Lahore attackers either (glad to be corrected on that).

    Even the US - nine years, bazillion dollars and hundred thousand troops in Afghanistan later- all we've got is Mullah Baradar (quietly picked up in Karachi, ffs). That too, apparently, after President Obama delivered a pretty blunt warning to the Pakistani government.

    In short, these people attack cricketers. And there aren't likely to be terrible consequences for their leaders if they do. It boils down to an evaluation of how good the Indian security apparatus is.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
    The South African team is in India right now.. Knock in the Wood.. they haven't faced any security problems so far.. so it has to be baseless...

    I have to admit that i am not a fan of IPL and i really hope that this IPL crap doesn't take place anymore.. but not for security reason rather based on the reality that how much it is hurting the great game of cricket..
    Baseless? When an extremist organisation actually comes out and makes threats directly against you?

    ****, you must be a hard hombre if that constitutes baseless.
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    International Coach duffer's Avatar
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    I would go to India but would fully appreciate anyone who wouldn't. With the hockey WC and Commonwealth Games coming there it's nsivety in the extreme to say those terrorist ****s(not necessarily Shiv Sena) aren't cooking something up. Leave it to the individual to decide. It's not our place to do it for them or pass judgement on those who stay home out of concern for their lives.
    Last edited by duffer; 21-02-2010 at 10:43 PM.
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    True, a Duffer "heh" is like 50 likes.

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    Cricket Spectator wood-e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
    The South African team is in India right now.. Knock in the Wood.. they haven't faced any security problems so far.. so it has to be baseless...

    I have to admit that i am not a fan of IPL and i really hope that this IPL crap doesn't take place anymore.. but not for security reason rather based on the reality that how much it is hurting the great game of cricket..
    Look I am not a pro cricketer or athelete guys. I live in Australia and i just visited family and went all over India absoloutely no issues for me personally love the place.

    But as I said i am not a target of terrorists.

    I would go if i was a player maybe not to Bombay but everywhere else.
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