***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Spikey]

Tendulkar vs Clarke

[silentstriker]

Clarke vs. Bradman

[G.I.Joe]

Pietersen vs Clarke, IMO.

[weldone]

AB De Villiers vs Clarke, IMO... and AB should win TBH...

[Burgey]

He really batted within himself too. Perhaps the penny has dropped.

[Black_Warrior]

Just to go back to an earlier discussion about Ponting and Tendulkar, Ikki mentioned how no one started rating Tendulkar lower when he went through a bad patch, so similarly they shouldn't rate Ponting as the same as Miandad just because he went through a lean patch.

Now people might have their specific reasons but I think a very general explanation of that could be very simple and something that has little to do with stats and averages.
Most of us who are more familiar with cricket in the 90s which I would think is the majority of CW, grew up with the notion that Tendulkar and Lara are the best batsmen in the world followed closely by Steve Waugh. That's all there was..it was Tendulkar vs Lara with the odd mention of Steve Waugh. There was no Ricky Ponting anywhere in that discussion. He was just not placed on that level.
Now I am not saying it is because he was not good enough or anything. I am not even talking about my own personal opinions on Tendulkar, Lara and Ponting. What I am talking about is the general perception and consensus. When Tendulkar and Lara started, they were identified very early in the early 90s as potentially great batsmen and masters of the game. Not the case with Ponting.
It is also because he started later in 95.

It was only from 2001 on wards when Ponting did what he did and matched Tendulkar and Lara in run scoring ability. But people's minds don't change that easily. Those who had it instilled in their minds that Tendulkar and Lara are better than anyone else, would not be able to put Ponting or Dravid or Kallis in the same bracket no matter how high their averages are and even if they outscore Tendulkar or Lara. A good example of that would be, I have grown up listening to people like Imran Khan and Wasim Akram who swore that Viv Richards is the greatest batsman they have ever bowled to. Imran even said that at times he feared bowling to Richards. I remember reading an early Saeed Anwar interview in the early 90s where he said the batsman he wanted to emulate was Viv. Hence it is very deeply etched in my mind that Viv Richards is the best batsman hence in my view, he will always be above Lara and Tendulkar although they have scored more runs and centuries than him.

Hence, to go back to my original point, even when Tendulkar went through a bad patch, people were not ready to say he has now dropped to Miandad's level when all their lives or all throughout their lives as a cricket fan they have heard that he is better than Miandad. That was not the case with Ponting, people did not grow up believing Ponting is the best batsman in the world..hence it is relatively easier for them to say Ponting has now dropped to Miandad's level when he goes through a poor patch.


Just to conclude, in my view personal view I rate Ponting higher than Miandad.

[Zinzan]

Maybe some outside Australia didn't spot his potential as early as '95, but I remember first seeing him play for Australia 'A' against the main Australian side in 94/95 & it was clear to me then there was something special about him.

[Spark]

Originally Posted by Burgey

He really batted within himself too. Perhaps the penny has dropped.

Yeah, it was a really understated hundred, oddly (although by no means slow). All determination, not a knock he'll remember for the strokeplay but probably one that he'll cherish more than most.

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Zinzan

Maybe some outside Australia didn't spot his potential as early as '95, but I remember first seeing him play for Australia 'A' against the main Australian side in 94/95 & it was clear to me then there was something special about him.

Fair enough. I am not trying to suggest he had no potential in 95..I am sure he had..you don't just become great overnight do you... But the point I was trying to make was, he did not get the kind of widespread fame and attention as someone like Tendulkar or Lara when they started..which is not his fault..its just the way it is..which is why it was only from 2001 onwards that people started to put him in the same bracket as them..whereas Tendulkar and Lara were tipped to emulate and surpass the likes of Gavaskar and Richards back in the early 90s when they started.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Fair enough. I am not trying to suggest he had no potential in 95..I am sure he had..you don't just become great overnight do you... But the point I was trying to make was, he did not get the kind of widespread fame and attention as someone like Tendulkar or Lara when they started..which is not his fault..its just the way it is..which is why it was only from 2001 onwards that people started to put him in the same bracket as them..whereas Tendulkar and Lara were tipped to emulate and surpass the likes of Gavaskar and Richards back in the early 90s when they started.

The Australian team in the mid-late 90s wasn't that easy to break into tbf. I recall Ian Chappell wanting him in the side "now or sooner" when he was all of 16 or 17.

[bagapath]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Boy some people are fickle.

Let me guess. Hmm.... You are talking about Afridi, right?

anyways....

to make it clearer about my take on where ponting stands among the other greats i am giving you the list of my top 25 batters since 1980 (when I started following cricket)... this is heavily influenced by my personal bias. but i am sure one can use stat analysis to validate this as well..

1. viv richards
2. brian lara
3. sachin tendulkar
4. greg chappell
5. sunil gavaskar
6. allan border
7. ricky ponting
8. rahul dravid
9. javed miandad
10. jacques kallis
11. steve waugh
12. kumar sangakara
13. matt hayden
14. virender sehwag
15. adam gilchrist
16. inzamam ul haq
17. gordon greenidge
18. ab de villiers
19. kevin pietersen
20. graeme smith
21. mahela jayawardane
22. martin crowe
23. aravinda de silva
24. david gower
25. mohammad yousuff

[bagapath]

Originally Posted by bagapath

Haha. Good to see you Ikki. You should be here when Ricky fades away in the next few weeks.

Can I have a diet coke and a large slice of that humble pie, please?

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by bagapath

Let me guess. Hmm.... You are talking about Afridi, right?

Err...No. I'm talking about people going crazy one way or another based on one innings or one series.

[blahblahblah]

I guess the debate has been settled once and for ever now.

[8ankitj]

This thread needs a poll...