***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

[Jono]

You're being way too simplistic here.

Of course players are going to play good innings even though they're ageing. But they'll go out to good balls more often, and mistime/edge balls they'd normally get right in the middle of the bat, as their reflexes go.

It doesn't mean they can't play quality knocks.

 

[Ruckus]

You're being way too simplistic here.

Of course players are going to play good innings even though they're ageing. But they'll go out to good balls more often, and mistime/edge balls they'd normally get right in the middle of the bat, as their reflexes go.

It doesn't mean they can't play quality knocks.

Hmm maybe. From watching Ponting play in recent times though, I just don't think it's the cause. I think it is to do with confidence/mental issues born from pressure on him as a captain (which is why after a lenghty break he often comes back with a good innings).

 

[Jono]

Ponting's last 4 years:

2007: 192 runs at 38.4
2008: 1182 runs at 47.28
2009: 853 runs at 38.77
2010: 813 runs at 36.95

So either Ponting was immediately under pressure once Warne and McGrath retired, and started becoming an ordinary batsman, or he's just been in decline as many ageing batsman are by 35 or so.

I am not denying that pressure/captaincy is a factor, but it is far from the only factor. His reflexes are definitely not as good as he was in 2006.

 

[Ruckus]

Ponting's last 4 years:

2007: 192 runs at 38.4
2008: 1182 runs at 47.28
2009: 853 runs at 38.77
2010: 813 runs at 36.95

So either Ponting was immediately under pressure once Warne and McGrath retired, and started becoming an ordinary batsman, or he's just been in decline as many ageing batsman are by 35 or so.

I am not denying that pressure/captaincy is a factor, but it is far from the only factor. His reflexes are definitely not as good as he was in 2006.

Obviously we have to agree that the cause isn't something black and white, but why couldn't that be true?

 

[Jono]

Because Australia didn't turn to poo the minute they left. They still had Hayden, Gilchrist, Lee (bowling amazingly in 2007), Stuart Clark at his absolute peak etc.

Australia 2007 is not Australia 2009/10.

Plus in that period he played Pakistan and WI at home and NZ away. Captaincy/pressure should be a non-issue.

 

[Cevno]

Didn't Australia also not go on a record winning run after Mcgrath warne which India ended at Perth?

Or atleast continued it?

 

[Contra]

Didn't Australia also not go on a record winning run after Mcgrath warne which India ended at Perth?

Warne and McGrath still played most of those test matches. The run ended 4 test matches after the Ashes finished.

 

[Ruckus]

That could explain why though his form was somewhat better then. The average of 38 in 2007 can probably be discounted because it was only across 6 innings, but his 2008 was actually quite decent.

Who the **** knows man!

 

[Jono]

His 2008 is exactly what you'd expect. Not average the ridiculous 60-70 or more that Ponting did in 2003, 2005 and 2006 etc.

But an average of 45-50 is generally the beginning of either a decline of a batsman, or they're just out of form.

To know whether it's one or the other you look at the next year. If it's less, it's likely a decline.

Look at the next year, it it's **** again, he's goneskis.

 

[Ruckus]

His 2008 is exactly what you'd expect. Not average the ridiculous 60-70 or more that Ponting did in 2003, 2005 and 2006 etc.

But an average of 45-50 is generally the beginning of either a decline of a batsman, or they're just out of form.

To know whether it's one or the other you look at the next year. If it's less, it's likely a decline.

Look at the next year, it it's **** again, he's goneskis.

His 2008 was actually positively good. He 'only' averaged 47.28 but had 0 not-outs, which doesn't happen often over 25 innings. He made 1182 runs with 4 hundreds and 5 fifties.

 

[marc71178]

Since when has 47,28 become the definition of a positively good batting average?

Especially in a year when about 20 batsmen averaged over 50?

 

[Ruckus]

Since when has 47,28 become the definition of a positively good batting average?

It hasn't. As an average of 47.28 for someone like Ponting, is near par. But we were discussing Ponting's form over the past few years etc. And if he is making 4 centuries and 5 half-centuries in a year that in itself suggests his form has been very good. For a player like Ponting, I think a good indicator of his form is his conversion rate - that's where he has struggled the most in recent times.

 

[marc71178]

I don't get that either - if an average of 47.28 is near par for him then he's nowhere near his previous efforts and hence in decline (which is the point that's being made)

 

[vcs]

Can't seriously criticise a batsman in a year where he scored 4 hundreds and 5 50s. I agree with DeusEx. Tendulkar also averaged <50 in 2008 but it was an excellent year for him, IMO (over 1000 runs).

 

[bagapath]

write this down guys. this is serious stuff. with the 49 runs he scored today, tendulkar has made sure he will finish his career with 40+ avg in all countries he has played in even if he gets out first ball tomorrow and then gets dismissed for a duck in the second innings; and for a duck in all the future innings also until, and if, india plays in zimbabwe again.

and, no, there is no other batsman with a 40+ avg in so many different countries.

 

[Cevno]

write this down guys. this is serious stuff. with the 49 runs he scored today, tendulkar has made sure he will finish his career with 40+ avg in all countries he has played in even if he gets out first ball tomorrow and then gets dismissed for a duck in the second innings; and for a duck in all the future innings also until, and if india, plays in zimbabwe again.

and, no, there is no other batsman with a 40+ avg in so many different countries.

He is pretty close to 50 or above in every country except Pakistan, South Africa and Zimbabwe.

It's a pity it is unlikely he will get to tour Zimbabwe or Pakistan again to improve records there. Currently he would easily demolish both.

 

[Jono]

What an eventful first over!

We are in for a cracking day.

Edit: Lol, wrong thread.

 

[Spark]

What an eventful first over!

We are in for a cracking day.

Edit: Lol, wrong thread.

I've done this so many times recently...

 

[bagapath]

hats off to ricky ponting. what a brilliant hundred; worth its weight in gold. once again he shows to the world why he is such a champion cricketer by playing a real captain's knock under pressure. too bad he ended up on the losing side, but this innings in the WC QF vs India is another feather in his cap.

 

[Jono]

I honestly want to tape that innings and show it to my kid one day. Not because it was extremely attractive or fluent, but because it is one of the best examples of grit and determination I may have ever seen. At least definitely in ODI cricket. The context, the situation, the pressure etc.

Not the perfect way to bow out (obviously he'd rather a WC win) but if his ODI career (or whole intl career) is over after that knock, it's a pretty good way for an amazing career to end.